FredDriver

All -- just wanted to pass on my recent foray to the "other side". I'm not saying my experience is right or wrong, just thought it would be useful to some or all out there.

I'm a MAJ w/about 2800TT (all heavies), IP is 2 MWS's, etc. Good OPRs, checked all my boxes, etc.

Last fall I thought I was smart and put the paperwork in...I had thoughts of "killing it" in the airlines and living happily ever after.

So.........after sitting for months on 10 applications and getting one interview (with Delta that was cancelled 3 days beforehand due to high fuel costs and a stagnant economy), I had a previous opportunity resurface on the AD side and I am now pulling the paperwork. A mere 30 days before my last day was going to be.

I actually have a great deal that came back to me. USAFA is going to pay my way for grad school and I'll return to the Zoo for a 4 year teaching gig. I'll be on the bonus, etc. I'm ok with not being on the road and flying after 10 years of doing it. I'll return to the operational world with great credentials and ready to wrap up the 20 year gig.

My point: Consider your options VERY carefully. Looking down the barrel of a loaded gun (the airlines in their current state) was not/is not fun. Yes, the AF is a pain some days. But the stability (for me) was much more enjoyably at the end of the day. Most of you know this, but the airlines have REALLY turned into a dicey proposal. Hiring has virtually stopped and the pool of qualified pilots looking for work has grown substantially with some airlines going belly up. And it looks like it will just get worse.

I'm happy with my decision at this point and look forward to immersing myself in academia for a few years. I hope everyone out there gets whatever they want. If you don't, you make decisions and move on.

Biggest problem I have not is a house I am severely upside down on. And I don't plan to rent. I want this out of my life...any ideas/suggestions from anyone? Short sell or walk away I guess.

SaltyDog

Glad it worked out for you. I left AD after 10 years in 93 when the furloughs were going and I had my interviews cnx'ed as well. I also sold a house for a loss in San Diego <g> because I got tired of renting at a loss and ate it. For me, both good decisions. But, the prospects of staying in were not financially induced, getting out wasn't financially driven. I loved the Navy, just not where I was going to end up in it. Glad I punched, ended up flying at the 'commuters' sans regionals and bypassed pax flying for freight when I got the opportunity. Stayed in the reserves and am still helping out Uncle Sam as a squid.
This industry is cyclical, was like this before, good times will come again and then the bad..... I truly hope they are on the upswing when you retire. Teach them thar young warriors well!

L'il J.Seinfeld

Not true--we have 3rd year FO's making well over 150k and working less than 10 days a month. If you can get hired at UPS/FDX it would be a wise financial decision to leave AD.

Each person is different and every situation is unique. But, in general, AD pilots should not be afraid to get out. Your QOL will be better in the civilian world and your family will benefit from it tremendously. Sticking around for the 20 year retirement is overrated IMO, and something more appropriate for a high school educated MSGt to say rather than an Academy grad. My point is that if you do the preparation any sharp, motivated, and hard-working AD pilot should be able to make more money with a better QOL within 2-3 years of getting out. It may not be in the airlines as hiring requirements cycle greatly, but there are enormous opportunities out there. West Point grads know this and often walk into high paying jobs after spending 5-7 years in specialities not directly related to business management. For some reason Air Force guys think that the only way they can support their families, and get health care is through Uncle Sam, which is certainly not true.

You'd have to be nuts, IMO, to take a pax airline flying job these days anyways. Get out of AD to improve your QOL and make more money. That may or may not involve flying an airplane. If you have to fly consider doing it in the Guard or USAFR.

Spongebob

I guess I'm not sharp or motivated. I got out and went to a Big-4 consulting firm for equal wages...the reality is you probably need at least 20% more from an "equal" slide to break even due to the taxes (I didn't pay state tax in the military) and other crap that costs money now (like not having a choice where you register your car! That was a shocking bill!).

That said, I didn't get out for the money but the six years of a$$ pain I was going to get for being non-command screen O-5 (missed my DH timing) and I was very frustrated with my leadership for having no-interest in helping me out. In that regard, I haven't regretted any of it, and I expected the $ part so it's OK.

My quality of life, both as a pilot and consultant is better...you won't be gone for 6 months straight, but there will be many weeks where you're only home a couple nights. It is liberating to go on a trip without having to drop leave papers!

Bottom line from my experience...if you have any doubts, stay in. Even with a good plan and reason, it's going to be scary - I didn't have a job until a month before I got out other than with the regionals. There's no job security anywhere, but there's also no loyalty and you're expected to jump to better opportunities as they arise. You'll be looked down on if you don't. Most folks will take a $ hit getting out, no matter what you do. Remember, the average officer changed jobs 3 times in the first 8 years of being out.

Just wanted to add a differing opion,
Spongebob

Ferd149

Soak it up spongebob.........just kidding, couldn't resist.

I retired then went to the airlines. Been a wild ride since 9/11 and to quote a friend of mine, it's the world greatest job and the worlds worst career.

I tell you this because I used to kick myself for not getting out when I was a young 0-4 (sound familiar) but I took an assignment I really wanted and then felt I was too old to not wait for retirement. I was wrong and since 9/11 have been really glad to have that old govt check covering my house payment.

Stay current any way you can while at the the usafa. Getting paid to sit on a beach somewhere in the world is still worth the crazyness. Good luck!

Ferd

beis77

I'm glad it's working out for you. I've got a little less than a year left and am planning on punching out. I'm tired of deployments and PCS's; basically I just want to settle down, so I know another 10 yrs on AD is not for me.

I agree that it is a decision that needs to be weighed carefully. With that said, I'm not necessarily sold on the airlines. Sure, I'm doing the research; I'll make sure I have my ATP before I get out, i.e. have all my bases covered so that the airlines are at least an option, but I am by no means sold on this industry. I am however sold on getting off of AD. And I figure I have enough mil experience/ education to help me get a solid job in the private sector with whatever may come my way. If not an Airline, then probably something in logistics/ transportation; we'll see.

Best of luck to all military folks who are getting ready to make this transition.

L'il J.Seinfeld

Ok, I promise you I'm not lying. I don't want to name names but I know of many, many 3d year FOs in that range. My point is that there are still "dream jobs" out there. Sounds as if FDX guys may have a harder time making more than just guarantee than we do.

SaltyDog

Magnum,
Unique to our ANC domicile. And very likely to be easily in the $130K+ range. ANC was woefully understaffed since startup. A reserve F/O often sent on trip that last 10 days hitting 80+ credit hours per pay period. Our base is 975 credit hours x $107 (2007 rate)= $104K. Lower 48 range.

ANC typically seeing 83-88 credit hours in bid for at 1100+ hours a year
(1100x107=$117.5K). Add annual sick payout of 6K at $123.5K.
Intl pay = $4.50/hr or about $108/day =about $13k/year. Now upto 123.5+13=136.5K for the third year ANC F/O. Do a bit of creative trip conflict and also bid your vacation over a trip and then pickup an open time trip worth another $10K. Now they are at $146.5K. Add a few grand for per diem and you see these rascally 3rd year F/O's at 150K. Not a bunch of 'em. But we do have a few. They may work 11-14 days sometimes. Also, our Reserve period is 15 days, but usually timed out etc. So "not" working (flying) more than the 10-12 (but they are.)
Again, not common, more common is seeing these F/O's at the 130K range in ANC. Lower 48 more in the $115K range.

zondaracer

Yeah I used to work at Penske truck rental and the regional manager was a west point grad, got out as captain and went straight to upper management and is easily making a six-figure income, and he was an infantry officer.

WAFP

Fred - where you flying out of? Just curious.

My $.02

Rent the house. It may be a pain in the butt, but I just bought a house that someone took a $220K LOSS on not more than 2 months ago (they bought in 2006). I'd hate to see that happen to you.

The party line about when to get out is "only you can decide". And that is correct. A paycheck at O-4 plus bonus while not having to spend 6 mo out of the year on the road, is not to bad. That being said, today's commercial world is all about senority, the quicker you're in the quicker to upgrade and more $$.

I would love to get out as quickly as possible. I haven't hit that 10 year make or break point, so my situation is different. I have enough hours to make a run at commercial, but just barely.

If I got out I would definatly hit up the Reserves or the Guard, you have job security with them.

Overall I would have to say that making the move to the Zoo in your case is the best course of action. Take the "they pay me to wake up" check when you hit 20 and then look for the different color green pasture.

Good Luck!

WAFP