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Air Force waste, tell us your story!

Old 06-09-2008, 10:27 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Tweetdrvr View Post
When a commander is racking and stacking his dudes for the few coveted in residence school slots, the ones who have shown their loyalty and commitment to the team by having done it by correspondance are the ones chosen to go do it again at MXF.
This is true. Every commander I've had has stated explicitly that only those who are correspondence complete will be considered for an in-residence SOS slot. That's like taking a CLEP test for a class before they let you enroll in the class IMO.
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Old 06-09-2008, 06:39 PM
  #22  
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How about this for a gigantic waste of my time. I had this message in my inbox when I got to the squadron today. Didn't these two get fired, and now we honor them? ***?

All,

AMC/CC has requested that each crew from our entire team send an email describing what was accomplished during Monday, 9 Jun (Zulu),
while flying either locals or missions, to honor SECAF and CSAF.

The email should be short. The items to include are listed below:

Please send the email to XXX.

Subject: SECAF & CSAF Tribute 9 Jun 08

Please start off with the following:

Team, in honor of the Secretary of the Air Force and the Chief
of Staff, flew the following today:

1) Type aircraft
2) Sortie duration (e.g. 5.2 hrs)
3) Purpose of the sortie (e.g. training, refueled 4 F-16s, ISO
OEF/OIF, Pacific channel mission, etc.)
4) A short (one - two sentence max) note expressing your crew's
thanks, gratitude, appreciation and well-wishes for our SECAF and CSAF
5) Crew names (e.g. Capt Tom Jones, 1Lt Dave Harris, TSgt Bob Smith,
etc.)

Commanders and Ops Officers please ensure that our crews get this
message and follow up personally.

SECAF and CSAF have led our Air Force during an
extraordinary time in our country's history. They have dedicated all of
their time, talents and energy in service to our Air Force and nation.
This is just a small gesture to show our appreciation for all they have
done.

Thanks for your support...fly safe!


v/r,
Col XXX

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 12:18 PM

Subject: SECAF & CSAF Tribute 9 Jun

Ladies and Gents: Last evening during CORONA, AMC/CC conveyed to SECAF and CSAF that all our worldwide MAF sorties on Mon 9 Jun would be flown as a tribute to our SECAF's and CSAF's leadership of our Air Force.
Consequently on Mon 9 Jun, from 0001Z to 2359Z, AMC/CC is requesting
that everyone of our Total Force crews that flies a sortie during that
Zulu day please send a short email during, or at the conclusion of their
sortie, including the following five items...

1) Type aircraft (e.g. KC-10)
2) Sortie duration (e.g. 5.2 hrs)
3) Purpose of the sortie (e.g. training, refueled 4 F-16s, ISO
OEF/OIF, Pacific channel mission, etc.)
4) A short (one - two sentence max) note expressing their crew's
thanks, gratitude, appreciation, and well-wishes for our SECAF and CSAF+
5) Crew names (e.g. Capt Tom Jones, 1Lt Dave Harris, TSgt Bob Smith,
etc.).

Send all these emails to XXX where they will be
collected and forwarded to SECAF and CSAF at the appropriate time.

Please encourage our chopped MAF assets in theater to
participate to the max extent possible without impeding their wartime
mission. EXPEDITE
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Old 06-09-2008, 07:05 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by GunshipGuy View Post
Air Force and waste? Don't those two go hand in hand? After 20 years you become so indoctrinated in how to waste tax payer money that it's difficult to point out examples. So help me out, does this sound like waste or just a good use of resources?

Maintenance at Hurlburt pretty much rules the roost. If Mx says you can only fly a 12 hour flying window then, by God it's a 12 hour flying window. In fact, for a while there mx said they'd do a better job if they only had to have planes available for ops 4 out of 7 days of the week. Got 5 tails available to fly? Sorry, our contract says we're only going to let you fly 3 of 'em. Otherwise it's too much a burden on mx. So it probably won't come as a surprise that the following decision wasn't even questioned in regard to wasted funds. When the training of new crew members for gunships was behind to the point that something significant had to be done the decision was made to fly on the weekends. But guess what; mx couldn't be imposed upon. So in their infinite wisdom the group decided that gunships from Hurlburt would fly their training mission (i.e. go shoot on the local ranges just 6 miles west of the base and do a dry fire mission within 60 miles of the base) and then recover to MacDill (270 NM east of HRT) on Friday night; then on Sat fly from MacDill to Hurlburt, shoot on the ranges, do the dry fire, and recover to MacDill again, then on Sunday, fly to Hurlburt and after another training mission, this time, amazingly, recover to Hurlburt. Thus, mx was inconvenienced with having to come out to the base on Sun and recover the aircraft (oh, the horror!). This happened on numerous occasions; it may still be taking place. Extra fuel, per diem, lodging, etc. Standard ops for the AF.
We have that type of problem at Keesler now. It's waste, but it is generated by short-sightedness. MX is undermanned and these days in the AF the tail wags the dog. To get around having to turn the plane over to MX, we fly out of home station - recover somewhere else..etc..etc We do it here. We leave the planes at a civ field 20 min away so we can leave them in TDY status vs turning them over to MX so we can get more sorties. That's a leadership issue.

Waste...well....first kudos to Keesler for cost savings..I just drove back onto base after dinner at the Hard Rock....some cute SF Sgt was at the gate in her beret, white shirt and shorts?!!?!? As I drove down the main drag I see more SF in teh same garb on bikes! I guess they use bikes vs the cruisers on nice VFR evenings. Saves gas!

Another STUPID budget cut. I have 6 channels in billeting. No FOX News...CNN..No WX CHANNEL. The AF felt that we didnt actually NEED that crap. and far be it from SERVICES to actually provide a f*cking SERVICE!!! And of all places..Keesler...that was ravaged by Katrina ...is leaving their residents in the dark during hurricane season because they wanted to save a buck. (I wonder if a letter to the editor/senator might fix this kinda crap)

Lastly...the buck saved by billeting was WASTED when the base here spent over 100-200k to renovate the Gold Course POND....they added new landscaping...scraped the ground and put down all new sod..and put a new fountain in the pond. All for the 6 people that actually use this POS course every week.

Ridiculous.........
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Old 06-10-2008, 02:51 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Stella View Post
How about every professional military education class (i.e. SOS, ACSC, AWC) all of my wing kings have said it is "necessary" to be done in correspondence prior to going in residence. This is a giant waste of my time and and the taxpayers money. ...
So ... how would you choose who to send to SOS in residence? There are simply not enough slots, and many Captains will accept the slot in residence to get the 5 weeks in Montgomery paid "vacation" while they continue to plan to depart the military. It is certainly their right to plan to depart the military, but it is also the Wg/CCs right to ask for Capt's to demonstrate some commitment to advancing their careers by doing SOS via correpondence. SOS correspondence really isn't that hard to do, and it doesn't take that long -- anyone who is unwilling to do it was probably either not going to stick around long term (beyond their current ADSC) or really doesn't care if they get promoted anyway.

There are certainly some legitimate waste stories on this thread, but there are many describing situations that make sense if you understand the big picture, and most Captains do not.

That is why so many good Captains appear to get "lobotomized" when they are assigned to a Headquarters staff job. Once there, they begin to understand the bigger picture, and they begin to realize that there are tough resource decisions to be made, and any decision made will appear "wasteful" to someone.

Does the AF have waste? Absolutely. Is it a complete free-for-all, who-gives-a-damn situation where senior leaders just don't care? Of course not.
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Old 06-10-2008, 03:00 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by GunshipGuy View Post
Air Force and waste? Don't those two go hand in hand? After 20 years you become so indoctrinated in how to waste tax payer money that it's difficult to point out examples. So help me out, does this sound like waste or just a good use of resources?

Maintenance at Hurlburt pretty much rules the roost. If Mx says you can only fly a 12 hour flying window then, by God it's a 12 hour flying window. In fact, for a while there mx said they'd do a better job if they only had to have planes available for ops 4 out of 7 days of the week. Got 5 tails available to fly? Sorry, our contract says we're only going to let you fly 3 of 'em. Otherwise it's too much a burden on mx. So it probably won't come as a surprise that the following decision wasn't even questioned in regard to wasted funds. When the training of new crew members for gunships was behind to the point that something significant had to be done the decision was made to fly on the weekends. But guess what; mx couldn't be imposed upon. So in their infinite wisdom the group decided that gunships from Hurlburt would fly their training mission (i.e. go shoot on the local ranges just 6 miles west of the base and do a dry fire mission within 60 miles of the base) and then recover to MacDill (270 NM east of HRT) on Friday night; then on Sat fly from MacDill to Hurlburt, shoot on the ranges, do the dry fire, and recover to MacDill again, then on Sunday, fly to Hurlburt and after another training mission, this time, amazingly, recover to Hurlburt. Thus, mx was inconvenienced with having to come out to the base on Sun and recover the aircraft (oh, the horror!). This happened on numerous occasions; it may still be taking place. Extra fuel, per diem, lodging, etc. Standard ops for the AF.
Did Hurlburt have contract maintainers, or all active duty, or a mix of active/reserve?

Many locations are very limited in what can be done. The senior maintainers can't work 24/7, and that is where the shortage normally is. They are likely already on 12-hour shifts. And, the odds are that, whether you like him/her or not, the OG/CC fully understands the mx situation and spends many, many hours discussing his/her needs with the MXG/CC.

IMO, what REALLY needs to be done is to close military bases. If Congress would allow the military to do so, then we could consolidate the people from the closed bases to the remaining ones, which could then be fully manned. In the early 90's we had about a 50% cut in AF personnel (around 660K in the late 80's, and now around 315K I think). But we certainly did not cut 50% of the bases.
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Old 06-10-2008, 03:27 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by MAGNUM!! View Post
Way to put all the names in a public forum.

Anyway, it looks like an end to the Fighter Mafia running USAF. I'd say we're in better hands, but based on the posts here I'd expect nothing to change.
My bad, I probably should have x'd out a few more names before I posted. Anyway, I think you are correct. It doesn't seem like anything is going to change, regardless of who runs the AF.
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Old 06-10-2008, 04:27 AM
  #27  
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Here's a couple from 8yrs AD/ 15yrs Resv:

1. Thousands spent to avoid spending a few hundred. ie T38 breaks off station, fly the pilots home commercially, then another one back out to pick it up 2 days later because the per diem acct was low. Herc needs a part, put 8 hours on another Herc to deliver a basketball sized part, because there was no money in the account to Fedex it.
2. AME missions. Already mentioned, but couldn't they do it all on the ground with the doors closed?
3. SOS in residence. Red Flag for shoe clerks. Nuff said.
4. During an AF wide budget cut in the 80s, the brass told Congress X percent would go unqualified due to the cuts. So I'm in the squadron one day for a 4 hour local training mission, and notice the 2 guys I'm with don't really need anything, and there are 2 others hanging around who are noncurrent. I ask the scheduler if I can swap and get those guys current, and the CC pulled me into his office and explained that those were 2 of the "X percent" designated to go unqualified to fulfill the general's prediction.
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Old 06-10-2008, 04:56 AM
  #28  
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This is hilarious! from a check-of-the-month-club winner/survivor, no less- congratulations on retiring, please MARKET whatever allowed you to still have this outlook through a career leading to retirement!

Though a captain may see the bigger picture- it is not theirs to understand. I know there's no little scar above either of my eyes!

We didn't say it was a free for all, and these stories contain some of the best of the worst of true, indefensible WASTE, in keeping w/ the thread.

Here's my impersonal explination of a career- pretty much any event can be considered "good" or "bad". You toss them on either side of the scale as they happen and press on to a new day. Someday you are told it's time to check the balance- commander's counseling, new assignment choices, end of ADSC, etc..- you take a look, and see where the balance was. Nothing personal- just check the balance.

Defending the BDE/IDE/SOS issue combined with downplaying waste does not gain street cred, but it is the laugh I needed. If you can make it thru SUPT/UPT/pilot training you can get thru SOS in correspondence/Maxwell AND a Masters degree by the time you're racked and stacked on your base for Major and school/IDE. It's not about what's hard- it's about what's stupid. Instead of "reblueing" schools- ask why you need to reblue in the first place- can't do it in the trenches? Really. Need an offsite institution? Really. That's where you really want to avoid the kool-aid- when they get you to compete to ship yourself off somewhere. Just in case you never heard- the reason they act lobotomized is there is a competition to see who can go the longest without having to make a decision or have any responsibility at a HQ gig. There are plenty of graybeards that know how to run the joint and keep the man happy. They may be a little slow on the powerpoint, but their total hours and knowledge of the man's preferred background format and templates more than makeup for any limitations. We youngsters realize your SOS and War college was done on overhead transparencies that cost you many nights' sleep and maybe a first marriage.

Originally Posted by capoetc View Post
So ... how would you choose who to send to SOS in residence? There are simply not enough slots, and many Captains will accept the slot in residence to get the 5 weeks in Montgomery paid "vacation" while they continue to plan to depart the military. It is certainly their right to plan to depart the military, but it is also the Wg/CCs right to ask for Capt's to demonstrate some commitment to advancing their careers by doing SOS via correpondence. SOS correspondence really isn't that hard to do, and it doesn't take that long -- anyone who is unwilling to do it was probably either not going to stick around long term (beyond their current ADSC) or really doesn't care if they get promoted anyway.

There are certainly some legitimate waste stories on this thread, but there are many describing situations that make sense if you understand the big picture, and most Captains do not.

That is why so many good Captains appear to get "lobotomized" when they are assigned to a Headquarters staff job. Once there, they begin to understand the bigger picture, and they begin to realize that there are tough resource decisions to be made, and any decision made will appear "wasteful" to someone.

Does the AF have waste? Absolutely. Is it a complete free-for-all, who-gives-a-damn situation where senior leaders just don't care? Of course not.
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Old 06-10-2008, 05:11 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by capoetc View Post
So ... how would you choose who to send to SOS in residence? There are simply not enough slots, and many Captains will accept the slot in residence to get the 5 weeks in Montgomery paid "vacation" while they continue to plan to depart the military. It is certainly their right to plan to depart the military, but it is also the Wg/CCs right to ask for Capt's to demonstrate some commitment to advancing their careers by doing SOS via correpondence. SOS correspondence really isn't that hard to do, and it doesn't take that long -- anyone who is unwilling to do it was probably either not going to stick around long term (beyond their current ADSC) or really doesn't care if they get promoted anyway.

There are certainly some legitimate waste stories on this thread, but there are many describing situations that make sense if you understand the big picture, and most Captains do not.

That is why so many good Captains appear to get "lobotomized" when they are assigned to a Headquarters staff job. Once there, they begin to understand the bigger picture, and they begin to realize that there are tough resource decisions to be made, and any decision made will appear "wasteful" to someone.

Does the AF have waste? Absolutely. Is it a complete free-for-all, who-gives-a-damn situation where senior leaders just don't care? Of course not.
Thank you for your career in service to our country.

But not having to put up with condescending, know-it-all staff weenies (Capotec's ilk) makes me glad I left active duty as soon as I could. Regardless of what rank you might have attained, or who you worked for; your "party line" comments have less than zero credibility here.

I encourage you to stop chugging the blue kool-aid, and you might be surprised at how silly some of the things the Man told you to parrot really are. Independent thought is a wonderful thing. Take advantage.
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Old 06-10-2008, 05:57 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by capoetc View Post
So ... how would you choose who to send to SOS in residence? There are simply not enough slots, and many Captains will accept the slot in residence to get the 5 weeks in Montgomery paid "vacation" while they continue to plan to depart the military. It is certainly their right to plan to depart the military, but it is also the Wg/CCs right to ask for Capt's to demonstrate some commitment to advancing their careers by doing SOS via correpondence. SOS correspondence really isn't that hard to do, and it doesn't take that long -- anyone who is unwilling to do it was probably either not going to stick around long term (beyond their current ADSC) or really doesn't care if they get promoted anyway.
That is some of the funniest sh!t I've read in a long time, thanks. Did you actually believe that as you typed it? Did you just spend a deployment to the AOR checking that flyers didn't have white socks on under their flight suits? Or had PT shirts properly tucked in?

Who the hell regards five weeks in Montgomery as a vacation?
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