P-3 Mishap
 

Any idea or scoop on the P-3 that went off the end of the runway recently. Heard thru the grapevine and trying to get more info.

Thanks

special projects is all I know

Here's a link to the Navy Times article:

Squadron CO fired after Afghanistan P-3 crash - Navy News, opinions, editorials, news from Iraq, photos, reports - Navy Times

Is it normal to "reassign" a squadron CO if he in involved in a Class A?
I've actually not encountered this situation. The pilot of a Class A is usually grounded until the FNAEB/FFPB is complete; but relieving him of command is drastic unless the FNAEB or SIR is already complete and the finding were of severe negligence.

USMCFLYR

The news article said he was the squadron commander AND the pilot. That probably had something to do with it. It also said the investigation is still underway. If I had to guess (and it's only a guess) there were obvious problems and that led them to move him out before the investigation was finished. On the AF side and I assume all services are close to the same, the CC usually only gets fired if they find some dirt or problems

Not related, but from the article:



Lord almighty! Mere words cannot describe!
Beer call! Everyone go change your shorts and meet at the club.

There are pictures of that P-3's wing, it looks like Shatner's gremlins were working on it. Skin peeled back and you can look IN the wing and see the top of the spar.

Yes - I realize that he was a pilot which is why I said that the pilot of a Class A mishap is usually grounded until one of the reports is complete - but not removed; so I agree - there has to be more there.

USMCFLYR

MCFLYR, My XO was involved in a Class A and there was no talk of any reassingment.

Rhino -

Yep - agreed.
I've had TWO XOs involved in mishaps and each time they don't fly until cleared; one of them didn't even required a FFPB in his case (USMC XO) because it was clearly airfield faciities realted - but he did in any case. that is why I wondered if it was different for a CO. In the end - I think there is something more to this story than just the mishap.

USMCFLYR

Does anybody know whether the P3 was taking off or landing when the accident occured?

I have trouble understanding how this could happen, the P3 is such a strong performer, both in flight and on the ground.
With those very large props and strong brakes (though not anti-skid protected), how can one go off the runway?

ewsp...:(

It was landing and many things can go wrong during any phase of flight. I've heard there was a pitchlocked prop involved but that comes from ready room talk, second hand info no doubt.

That would do it...we had a Hawkeye go into the weeds for the same thing a couple years ago - Prop pitchlocked on a PEL to a full-stop and when they went into reverse it just took off.

Obviously, the Commodore didn't like something that was going on - I've known 2 CO's to get fired when it became apparent that command climate had directly caused a mishap.

Spongebob

Gents,

Yes the P-3 is a strong airplane and very forgiving. But, VQ-2 parked a perfectly good airplane off the end of a 12k runway in Crete in 1997. Nothing wrong with the airplane. Just bad crew coordination, command climate and poor training practices. Many lessons were learned.

CO being relieved. Rumor has it that the CO was at the controls. Lack on confidence by the Commodore for the Skipper is what caused the CO to be relieved.

Yeah, and the VQ-2 CO (Single Anchor type) was in the cockpit sitting on the radar cabinet when Ranger 25 departed the runway way back when. He ended up being the CO of NAS Whidbey when I was there. Guess his career turned out alright:)

Would that be a VAW-120 pilot? I was there for that, the 120 IP was giving a NATOPS check down in St. Augustine on a brand new E-2C...or at least thats what I recall. I had one pitchlock in the pattern at Miramar and at 105.8, I easily heard it before looking at the rpm.

I'm sure the location of this incident contributes to the lack of info. Also, I would imagine that since pics of the Whidbey ClassA were on the internet the day it happened has something to do with the info lockdown. ...As well as it being a Projects bird.

I've heard "currency" mentioned as a factor. Two P-3 class A's within 3 months??? Whidbey was pilot error and 100% avoidable, regardless of what the Hazrep says. If this latest one is similar in nature, I'm sure the commodore had no tolerance or leaway for consideration, especially if the CO was onboard/PPC/PAC.

Unfortunetly 70-80% of all mishaps are human error and probably avoidable. Two Class A mishaps in a short period is not a good sign. VAW-120 had 5 Class A's and 1 Class B in a period 4 years with 3 lives lost. Only one of the Class A's was mechanical failure (though maintainer failure) and one A and the B were due to student mistakes with the IP trying to save the plane.

ducgsxr,

The CO was a double anchor type.

For the AF guys, what's a "double anchor?"

http://www.worldwide-brass-products....ings_small.jpg

Double anchor is an NFO or Naval Flight Officer. In the P-3 they perform the duties of navigator/comms (NAV/COM) and Tactical Coordinator (TACCO). In other planes, they perform what an AF guy would know as Weapons System officer.

It was always said that the second anchor on their Gold wings insignia kept them more firmly attached to the ground since many of them didn't seem to like flying much anyway.....;)

Thanks DelDah.

And they are AKA: SLBs. Self Loading Baggage.

Just kidding. Couldn't do the paperwork reqiured for the missions without them. :0)

700 lbs of gas!

Don't forget mission commander...

Ah...the fight between PIC in the front seat and Mission Commander in the backseat! :rolleyes: Never been there! :D

USMCFLYR

Front seat guys can be mission commanders too

WP -

If the above was directed to my comment - absolutely - never said they couldn't of course; but my comment was directed at the situations that I have heard when the front seat pilot and backseat mission commander haven't necessarily agreed of certain issue. A lot of time is spent trying to delineate the decision making process but it often is just not black and white.

A more recent event has put flight leaders (whether they be properly designated section or division flt leads) and a senior ranking member of the flight at odds with who has final responsibility for the flight.

USMCFLYR

Well said USMCFLYR, I completely agree