Age Limit
 

To all you ANG guys. What is the current age requirement for getting a slot at an ANG unit. Currently an FO at a regional and a LT in the USNR. Are there any waivers for age based on prior military folks?

30
 

ctd57:

For the USAF, USAFR, and ANG, it is 30...I'm pretty sure this is Federal law/Title 10-driven, meaning the other military branches are the same.

This means you can start UPT and turn 30 the next day. Exceptions are rare--I had a student about 4 years ago who was 29 and 8 months...he had orders in-hand, but a month before he was to start, his wife got cancer. He delayed his start by 6 months while she was treated (and eventually recovered), so he was actually over 30 on day-one of UPT.

Waivers are tough, although sometimes the Guard can get them. The unit either has to want you really badly, or you have to possess some incredible political connections, like your Dad plays golf with the State Adjutant General.

I don't think your previous Naval time will count.

UAL is right, you have to start UPT by your 30th birthday. I had a guy in my AMS class that was 31 heading to UPT. I also had a guy in my UPT class that had a waiver for starting after his 30th birthday. He also had a waiver for years of commissioned service, which may be something you may need to look into. I'm not sure but if you have been an officer for more than 5 years, you may require a waiver.

do you have an aero rating already?
 

Used to be units in conversion could get waivers for their nav/wso's up to 34 if their aircraft conversion was displacing those guys from jobs (F-4s to F-16s, KC-135 Avionics Upgrades, C-130E/H to J).

If you are already an NFO, maybe they can convert your Aerorating to AF equivalent Nav/CSO wings, then send you to UPT that way. I have seen quite a few Army rotary wing guys come through lately for ANG units and they are already wearing AF pilot wings at UPT due to the converting of their aero rating. Unfortunately, the only game in town on this conversion thing right now are the guys going to UAVs.

Until they figure out how to train a UAV track ab inito, the ANG units are sending guys to full on UPT to give them options with other ANG units down the road should they move or units close/change missions again.

Talking with a senator's military representative, he said that the easiest waivers to get are age waivers and they usually get about 95% of them approved.

The bigger problem is finding a unit willing to put in the time and effort to hire you if you need one. There are plenty of qualified applicants that don't give the unit the hassle of getting a waiver. I'd say it's near impossible to get an offer unless they really like you, they're desperate, or you know someone with a lot of pull.

So it looks like you have most of your answer... 30 no later then the start of UPT/Pilot training... But I will tell you this... one word.. WAIVER! you can waiver alot in the air force.... I know for sure... I went to pilot training with guys that were over thirty at the start of training and they told me that it was a pretty easy waiver to get. It all about selling yourself! If they like you you can get in... and the few that I knew in this circumstance were NOT all prior service a couple were Non-prior serviceman... Now if you are more then a couple of years over thirty... Start checking out the Army....

Hmm I am in a similar situation. I am an Army O, RW pilot. If all goes as I dream, I will be out in 4 years, 10 months, putting me at 29 1/2, almost 30 years old. I want to transition directly into the ANG to fly fast movers, so if the stars align and my dream works out I will have been hired by the ANG unit by then and perhaps have a UPT slot. That is pushing it real close...probably too close. I was told, however, that I would be going to an abbreviated UPT. I do not know all that much about that scenario, but I was wondering if the age limit still applies to this "abbreviated UPT" that I was told about?

As for the Army I know a guy who was 31 in flight school...a CPT. I also knew some older WOs. Those waivers depend on the unit if NG/reserve and needs of the army for AD. There isn't nearly as much demand for an older commissioned officer (generally a branch transfer CPT) whose timeline requires a company command fairly shortly after flight school because the officer has very little aviation experience and couldn't command a company as well as someone who knew aviation better. If it is a newly commissioned O, good luck getting an age waiver in active duty. There are plenty of qualified younger LTs and not enough aviations slots to go around as it is.

I have seen some fairly old prior service folks become WOs. Just depends on needs of the army. And, if you could get hired by a NG/Res fixed wing unit, I'm certain a waiver could be attained if they wanted you if you did decide to check out the army.

Commercial to Military
 

I'm currently a commercial pilot, 33 years old, 1650 flight hours. Could I still get a UPT slot in the Air Guard/Reserve?

If you started the process now, you'd be 35 by the time you start UPT (which I think was the cut-off for prior Nav's a few years ago). If you were a prior Navigator in the Air Force or an extremely well liked enlisted aircrew member/crew chief in the same unit, you'd have a shot. Guy off the street that nobody knows...sorry, your chances are almost zero, even if you showed up with the waiver stapled to the top of your package.

The "abbreviated UPT" course that you speak of is called, "Fixed Wing Qual/Transition". It consists of the same amount of flight hours that the UPT students fly without the "hazing" that new students are usually subjected to. Because of flying twice a day, most days, (double turns) you finish in a lesser amount of time than the normal UPT syllabus.

Any other questions feel free to PM me. I attended the course when it was at Laughlin AFB. (Del Rio by the sea.) If you go in the future, the course is now going to be at Randolph AFB in San Antonio.

GJ

I don't think the pilot age limit is federal law/title ten thing, never heard of that nor is there a reason that congress would care enough to pass a law. Plus such a law would be restrictive...no waivers could ever be issued (except by congress) without changing the law even in times of national need.

I think there may be a title ten age limit for military personnel..ie age 40. The services normally use age 35 for officers but there have been recent waivers beyond that. Age 40 makes sense because you have to retire at age 60, so they want you to have a shot at reirement.

Blastoff - Actually, I work on munitions for the F-16 (enlisted two years ago...sorry, failed to mentioned that!). Since my unit is downsizing, I don't think they are even holding a board this year for pilot slots. I suppose my question should have been directed at getting a slot at other units. I'm very well-respected at my current unit.

If you can shed any additional light on my chances for waiver, I'd appreciate it. I'm 33 years, 5 months old. Thanks so much.

Lastshot,

I hate to rain on your parade, but I believe that rickair is right in that there really is no up side to hiring someone who is approaching an age limit, who is unknown by the new unit, when they can hire a younger guy, either from their own unit, or off the street, who shows an equal desire to succeed. The thing that you have going for you is that you're already a pilot, however, in the overall scheme of things, that in and of itself is really not too important. I say all the above, coming from basically the same situation that you are in, except that when I applied, I was a SSGT weapons loader, but not a pilot. Regardless, don't let any of us influence your decision. Perseverance is one of the keys to a successful life. If you really want it, go for it.

Good luck.

JJ

JJ - are you now a pilot? What was your situation like in comparison to mine? Thanks.

Oldest Age for UPT
 

Everyone -

What is the oldest age of someone you've known or heard of who has entered UPT?

Lastshot,

My flying background started when my Guard unit hired me to become a pilot. I went to UPT, then on to F-100 fighter training, and returned to my unit to fly the Super Sabre. 5 years later we transitioned to the A-10, which I flew from 1979 until the day I retired, which was the last week of 1999. During that time, I got hired by Pan American, left there for UPS, which I also left, and finally ended up at FedEx, where my last flying position was as a captain on our MD-11's. At age 60, I went to the back seat of the 727 and did that until two years ago when I had a heart problem. Since then I've been out on long term disability, and will remain that way until I retire 51 weeks from now.

The major differences between what you're trying to do and my situation back then are: 1) I was 26 years old when I went to pilot training (but the max age limit back then was 26&1/2); 2) After returning from Vietnam, I had joined that unit as a SSGT weapons loader, and had been there for almost 2 years prior to applying for the pilot training slot; 3) I was not a pilot when I was selected for OCS and then UPT.

Again, good luck.

JJ

JJ - I appreciate all your input. Is there anyway I can correspond with you by email or phone? Would really like some guidance in my aviation career (even non-military advancement) and you seem like a very seasoned pilot. I'd mean a lot to me. Thanks.

Your Guard unit had F-100s until 1979? If you don't mind me asking,where was that?

It was the Flying Yankees of the 103TFG at BDL ANG Base, Windsor Locks, Connecticut.

JJ

Sure, post some contact information and I'll get in touch with you. However, I'm sure that there are more up-to-date guys here, who might better be able to offer guidance.

JJ

[quote=live2fly;506542]So it looks like you have most of your answer... 30 no later then the start of UPT/Pilot training... But I will tell you this... one word.. WAIVER! you can waiver alot in the air force.... I know for sure... I went to pilot training with guys that were over thirty at the start of training and they told me that it was a pretty easy waiver to get. It all about selling yourself! If they like you you can get in... and the few that I knew in this circumstance were NOT all prior service a couple were Non-prior serviceman... Now if you are more then a couple of years over thirty... Start checking out the Army....[/q

What type of aircraft did the guys over 30 entering UPT fly? Also, how many years over 30 were they and what were their backgrounds? Thanks!

blazeindt at yahoo. If you can send me an email to let me know you got it, that'd be great. Thanks.

Cool, that had to be the last ones before they were turned into drones?

You're killing me.:eek:

JJ

Are you on facebook?

Live2fly -

How many years & months over 30 were they? Also, how long ago did those folks enter UPT? It seems the times have changed - almost seems like nowadays waivers are harder to get with a shrinking Air Force.

No. I tried it and felt like a fish out of water, so I resigned my commission:D.

JJ

Does anybody have any idea on Army age waivers for WOFT? I was told a while ago they were not granting any at all.

Hello all,

I am 31yrs old with a Commercial ASEL, AMEL, Instrument rated with about 370 TT, and 42 total ME. I have read in previous posts in this thread that I could possibly get a waiver to be accepted to UPT at my age. However, during the start of my flight training(which was 10yrs ago) I was unable to pass the color blind test when I went to get my medical and so a restriction was placed upon it. In order for me to have it removed an FAA agent and myself stood at one end of the field from the control tower so the controller could flash red, white, and green lights at me and all i had to do was tell the agent what the colors were. I passed the test and the FAA issued me a SODA (Statement of Demonstrated Ability) saying that I was waived from taking the color blind test each time I went to renew my medical.


So, my question is if I applied and was accepted and I went to the flight Dr. for a physical and just so happened to pass the color blind (which I am told has been the same test used for years) would the SODA be an issue as far as a flight surgeon passing me? I hope i made some sense asking this question. I am just curious if a military career can still be a possibility for me. In the mean time I am currently working on my CFI and going from there.

I appreciate any thoughts or advice from you all.

In my case the military didn't not care, nor ask, about a SODA from the FAA. If you can pass THEIR test - all is good. If you can not - they don't care what the FAA might have to say about your color vision ability.

Btw - I'm assuming that you got your SODA so many years ago in the manner in which you describe for your 3rd Class FAA physical. Depending on whom you talk too, you may be told that you are required to get another waiver for another class of FAA physical - which is different from the older SODA process you describe.

There are some informative threads in the Pilot Health forum that you might want to become familiar with when you are ready to progress.

In 18 years, sending probably 30 or more UPT candidates up for USAF physicals, the color test was the only one 2 failed. It's a tough test, but don't let that stop you from trying.

GF

Tough? It's only tough if you're colorblind.

I would be quite surprised if the flight doc...any flight doc accepted the SODA in place of the test. The Air Force anyhow seems to take this very seriously. A failure there would mean a failure overall. My $$ is on that you'll have to take the color blindness test. Yes, it is the same test that they've used for years but the numbers change. I know a guy who was colorblind and memorized the numbers in order. Trouble was the numbers had changed and he failed miserably.

Thank you for the responses.

I figured I would just give it a shot and see what happens. I am still working on my CFI so if civilian flying is the only thing for me than so be it :). Other than worrying about a color blind test, would any of my creds mentioned previously help give me a good chance of making it in?

A guard unit I interviewed with a few months ago hired a guy who was 35.

They can't hurt. I doubt that most AF Guard/Reserve units would really care much. They are more concerned that you're a good dude.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the Air Force is going away from the old colorblind test and has moved to a computer-based test that is also timed. It is fairly challenging for someone with normal color vision. My last four Flt physicals have used this new test instead of the old colored numbers books. A failure of an initial applicant might result in additional testing at what used to be Brooks, or they may chose to disqualify someone after additional testing on base. There is as far as I know, no waiver for color blindness and everyone else is correct, they could care less about what the FAA has said.

You are in luck as an already rated pilot in the Air Force's eyes. The age requirement does not apply to you since you are already rated, albeit in another service. The age 30 restriction applies to UNDERGRADUATE Pilot Training. You will be attending a graduate training course (Fixed Wing Qual) so you have no age restriction. The difficult part is going to be getting the Air Force to regenerate the FWQ course. They stopped it a few years ago, but our reserve unit was able to get AFRC to press AETC to reinstate the syllabus a couple of years ago. I don't know how long they will continue the program is it is still alive. Definitely worth pursuing and the precedent has been set for your situation.

Yeah,

I got the new test on my 2012 physical. It was much tougher.