It's unfortunate you feel that way. Yes, it's not perfect, and like any organization it has its share of misfits who managed to make it in (and far too often figured out how to stick around). But by putting "Military:" above your list it appears you are applying your critiques to the anyone and everyone in the military (and perhaps who ever served). I can confidently say that the vast majority who come across your post would join me in admonishing you for such negative generalities against the men and women of our armed services.

Is the DoD wasteful? You betcha, but name a department of the federal government that isn't. The military doesn't force you to pay taxes for a national defense; The Constitution is your culprit there--a national defense is called for in that document. You are that customer, sir. And you should be appreciative of what they, and the many who served before them have given, many with their lives, so that you and those you care about can enjoy the freedoms and opportunities this country provides.

I'm sorry you didn't enjoy your time in the military. Hopefully, for everyone involved, it was relatively short. I have a strong feeling we'd have a difference of opinion as to why you didn't leave with a favorable attitude.

Holy major axe to grind Batman. Little simmering resentment there?

I can see your point, lord knows the airlines consistently turn profits, are turning back customers, and never, ever, receive taxpayer support.

And the leadership...wow, I'll tell you, never seen management make a mistake.

Marsea,

I'll admit that I throw grenades into discussions, but at least they are usually on topic and include specific examples to support my point of view.

As far as your specific points are concerned, I will address them bullet by bullet:

1. - Certain functions of the military lend themselves to profit or at least less cost (depot level mx, etc) and are actually forced to compete against outside bids. On the whole, as was already said, while certainly what I would consider wasteful at times, they fulfill their mission as well as any other in the world if not better.

2. There are customers, although they may not interact with them on a personal basis. In that regard, they are like some companies and unlike others. For example; I've never interacted with Toshiba, but I am sure they considers themselves as having customers.

3. Go into Afghan and Iraq and see if there is a lack of competition. I'd go so far as to say that there are many in the military (SF etc) that are better at what they do than you are at what you do.

4. As of yet, they haven't forced the citizens of the the nation they defend to do anything against their will - I wouldn't say the same about nearly any other military on the planet.

5. Are you implying that EVERYONE in the military is there because they can't get out?

6. I would hope so, because if they are the first, the rest won't last anyway. And neither will we. Those COEXIST bumper stickers don't keep bad things from happening to us all by themselves.

7. How do you value a military, and how does true leadership relate to value? Despite what you may think, without the military we wouldn't be enjoying the lives we enjoy - how do you value something that's priceless?

Let me just say that, while you may have come close to some concerns that exist amongst those in our military, I would consider that was due to shear coincidence. When you have more specific examples illustrating concerns you may have, and are ready to articulate how they relate to this topic, I am sure we will all be ready to listen.

Marsea,

You welcome. My fellow veterans and I are the reason you can say things like that and not be afraid of getting a beat down by the government. Check out Iran. People are protesting the election while covering their faces for fear of reprimand and they are getting a beat down.

Running an Airline like a Squadron: I have never heard or seen any Airline CEO that has served in the military. Sling your s%^t up that way.

Do me a favor, when you fly/work with these Vets, thank them for their service. Don't call the Bozo's! If you don't then you are a hipocrit becuase you enjoy the freedoms they provide.

Spanky

LivingInMem: I agree with you completely and double on the first sentence.

I certainly hope not.

100% incorrect. Try not meeting your obligation to your reporting command and your supported commands and see how long you last.

True for some third world operations. 100% incorrect in the US military. We have five services (army, navy, usmc, air force, and socom) which provide overlap on all mission areas. Try screwing up and see what happens...somebody else will take your mission (and funding). Real world example: USAF screws up nuclear weapons handling and aircraft procurement programs...their next generation bomber gets shelved. The navy next-gen ballistic missile submarine program gets moved up on the schedule (the navy has been building subs early and under-budget).

Actually the US military does not force anyone to pay for it, that has to do with voting and congress.

If you tick them off, they sure will. They might have to wait a year or two. The average military member has less than two years obligation remaining.

true.

I suggest some college history classes, or maybe watch the history channel if reading is not your thing.


Sounds like you were in the Liberian army, or were a very junior member of the US military. As a very junior member, your concern was peeling potatoes and scraping paint...you are not qualified to talk about the big picture based on that :rolleyes:

I am a Veteran myself.

I stand by what I say.

Making a statement - if you read my post, it is one of my opinion I extrapolate into my personal fact - it is not per se, critical - it is what it is. It is a statement about government and a branch of the same - not those that work/serve within it. A statement about paradigm.

Yes, many of your retorts are obviously true. I was trying to bring to light why the Military is so disfunctional - because many of the incentives and dis-incentives that are present in the free market are not in the Military.

Marsea

Marsea,

If you truly are a veteran, I can only plead with you to stop writing in a public forum. Your horrifically unsupported points and uneducated remarks only serve to give military members an unfortunate verdict of guilt-by-association. I do not wish to be associated with your comments in any way shape or form. I can not imagine a single other veteran who would either. From the sounds of it, your greatest contribution to our nations' fine military was to leave it. Please do not diminish this contribution by speaking from the perspective of a veteran. Your perspective should be more of one who served with regret, having never really understood the honor of being allowed to serve.

To say, in front of a group of current and past military officers and leaders, that the military has no true leadership - only validates your ignorance.

The proud military veterans on this site will accept your silence as an apology.

I'll bet he was in the French military.;)

Marsea,

So you join APC 2 days ago, ask a 737 recirc fan question (you are a Capt?), play the race card on a ANG/Reserve thread, and then bash the military here?

Please enlighten us as to how you served.

...and yet many stay without those incentives. It isn't about them. They look past the problems and serve the greater good.

Obviously, you weren't inspired by your leaders and you didn't receive the leadership training you had hoped for. So now, as a self-proclaimed FNC, do you feel you have been trained to lead? Please tell us how that has gone so we can look forward to getting out of the military and proceed to looking like an ass on APC.

I can't find the middle finger icon.

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k1...ly-madison.jpg

Marsea: I am a Veteran myself. I stand by what I say. I know from experience dude. If you know what I mean.

Billy Madison: No, you don't.

Marsea: Well, not me personally but a guy I know--he was a veteran. Wooo-eee!

Billy Madison: No, he wasn't.

Marsea: No, no, no he wasn't. But you could imagine what it'd be like if he was, right...? Everybody on, good, great, grand, wonderful.

Marsea: [shouts] No yelling on the bus!