Talked to a recruiter for the Army Guard.
 

I talked to an Army National Guard recruiter today about getting a helo slot. Though the guy seemed straight forward I left the conversation with a few questions. He said the best way to apply for a pilot slot (Warrant Officer) was to enlist first then apply for the pilot slot once I was already in. Is this indeed the best way to go? I'm a bit leery of enlisting, failing the physical or otherwise not getting a pilot slot then being stuck in a nonflying job. I've got a Bachelors Degree, and 3700 hours of fixed wing time. The Air Guard is a no go because my color vision isn't perfect, but I'm FAA unrestricted. Can anyone offer advice or shed light on the process for the Army Guard? Thanks.

DO NOT enlist first if that is not what you want do. The recruiter is simply trying to fill his quota and has no care for what your actual aspirations are. This is especially coimmon for people who try to get on as Warrants in the army to fly Helo's.

Be steadfast in talking with a recruiter and make sure he is doing what you want him to.

Yeah the whole enlist first thing sounded a bit suspect. How should I approach it then? Has anybody joined as a civilian and gone straight to ANG aviation?

Tell him you want to apply directly to WOFT...most recruiters won't help you because they know its a long process (at least 6 months) and they probably wont be around when you do finally submit your packet.

Whatever you do, don't enlist.

Good info on here:
KiowaPilots.com

Absolutely follow the advise given. Under no circumstances enlist. You are qualified right now to be an officer, warrant or commissioned. Even if you did not have a degree I would still not enlist, finish school first. If you want to fly a ton, go the warrant officer route. Recruiters have nothing to gain from you trying to be a warrant officer to fly, if you are not enlisting you are not helping their numbers. I almost did the WOFT program right out of high school, but changed my mind and got my degree instead, and ended up joining the AF to fly. Good luck and if you want to do it I say go for it.

This makes me want to puke, that the DoD enables and encourages these walking turdballs to lie through their teeth to make mission. We railroad so many kids into a deal which was not quite what they were led to believe, and then as soon as they get to boot camp start drilling them on ethics and honor. What a load of hypocrisy...is it worth it?

They could double the number of recruiters if that's what it takes to get the job done without lying, but that would be slightly expensive. Well at least we have a ballpark estimate on the cash value of honor. This **** just burns me up :mad:

As to the original question, no don't enlist, that is a ludicrous proposition for someone with your qualifications unless you want to go into special operations.

I appreciate all the replys guys. So if I want to apply to a given Army Guard Aviation unit in California (I live an hour away) Should I go to the unit, or tell the recruiter I want to apply directly to WOFT, which I assume is Warrant Officer Flight School. If he says pound sand who can I turn to to put together a packet?

Is the recruiter associated with the guard unit you are interested? If not, I would go talk to someone at the unit.

+1 to all the advice, with a few add-ons. Caveat 1: I'm not 100% familiar with Army Guard, but I'll bet it's pretty similar to ANG.

Reference your color vision. If ANG is where you want to go, don't give up on this just yet - remember: for every regulation there is an equal and opposite Guard waiver. You may get the "no," but it's worth asking.

For Guard, go VFR-direct to the unit you want to fly for. Don't stop at any recruiter. It may be that enlisting in that unit is the normal track for selection - a lot of units hire the lions share of their UFT folks internally, but even in units like that, they'll go outside for the right candidate.

My unit, and most ARNG aviation units, select our pilots directly. We do not work with recruiters to hire pilots. You need to be talking direct to the aviation units in your state, as these selections are made by unit commanders and the State Aviation Officer (often one and the same). Most units will require you to put together a packet similar to an ANG packet, and attend a selection board. We just had our board on Sunday. Hiring a pilot just isn't the same thing as hiring an infantry soldier, or even another type of officer. In my state (VT) and all others I'm familiar with, it is completely unit driven.

Enlisting may be the only option to go warrant, in some states. We would not hire a non-prior service warrant candidate. I want to know you have the basic ability to survive in the military before I waste a flight school slot on you. Active duty has a number of programs that hire pilots off the street. Normally a non-prior service applicant would be a hard sell to a commander, but a lot of prior flight time would be looked at highly.

Dustoff, thanks for the straight forward reply. I called the recruiting line of the unit because I didn't want to skip the chain of command. Thats where I got the guy telling me to enlist. Is driving out to the unit without an appointment frowned upon? If so what position should I look for on the contact list to start the packet process?

I have to echo VT's statements re: an ARNG slot.

In our state there is a senior Warrant that coordinates with respective applicants and sets up the review/selection boards. That individual is the gate keeper in a manner of speaking.

I looked into an IERW slot for a buddy that flies for a major with 10,000+ hours, an ATP & multiple types, and even a CFII-RH (S-300Cb) from his flight instruction days. He obviously could fly a helicopter and had the ability to act as a professional pilot. The SAO (state aviation officer / senior aviator in the state / LTC in our case/ i.e. HMFIC) said he would consider an age waiver given his large experience BUT.... my buddy would have to enlist and earn an enlisted MOS while the paper work for IERW (google that) was completed and his slot came up. This provided the unit with a back up in case he failed out of IERW. It also gives people in the unit a chance to see how the individual handles the military. Just because you have 3000 hours does not mean you will be the guy that adds to the unit.

It is a leap of faith and I can understand your hesitation, remember the unit is taking one on you too.

Definitely punch some phone numbers, search this web board for other websites, and be proactive in your search for the individual assigned with aviator hiring. Be assertive.

The unit will have a training officer, or training NCO, who is the full time support that handles day-to-day unit business. That number could be hard to find, but usually if you call the main guard switch board and ask for the Army Aviation Support Facility training office they can cnonnect you. If they ask who you are just tell them you're a pilot candidate seeking aviation specific info the recruiter didn't know, which is the truth. I would tactfully let the training dudes know you're already a pilot early, it will break the ice.

I wouldn't cold call. The person you need would probably be in a meeting anyway. Also, run to Borders, and get a copy of Military Flight Aptitude Tests. There are a couple practice tests for the AFAST in there, and if you can talk inteligently about that when you call, all the better.

And start running.

Hey,
First post here, but hopefully it will shed some light. I'm Guard and just completed IERW (Initial Entry Rotary Wing) training in Ft. Rucker last August. I have 12 years of service and absolutely no prior flight training. Going through school I can vouch that there are NO Guard "Street to Seat" slots. However there are a few Active duty STS slots. The comon thread in these students was a degree and prior flight experience , of which you have both. IMHO the Active component is offering what your looking for. State guards have limited flight school slots per year and so tend to give them to up and coming soldiers who've proven them selves through deployments or prior service to ensure their loyalty after school. No offense, but reputations aren't built over night. I fully agree with all the above posts, and remember everything is subject to timing and or waivers. -Good luck.

PS FWIW the Army is increasing the ammount of pilots going through Ft. Rucker to fill shortages in the community. I think they're going from ~1700 in the pipeline to ~2400.

Just to add to the above post which is very relevant with accurate and CURRENT information.

I have done selections for Active Army applicants over several years past and by far the two criteria that are weighted the most for Active Army applicants are your GT score and AFAST score. Minimum scores will let you apply but to be completive you will need to have an average between the two scores of 120 or better. A degree is great; it shows motivation and ability to finish a program. Prior flight experience is looked at but carries less weight than a degree and GT/AFAST scores when it comes to selecting the "best qualified". Prior flight experience is nice to have....but statistically it will not help you do well in flight school in the long run. Prior flight experience will help you in the instrument phase of IERW but it will not carry you through the entire program. Also, if you have had problems with color vision I would make sure I could pass the Class I flight physical before I spent much time getting my hopes up. Flight slots are weighted heavily towards Active Duty soldiers, but there is a trend to ease back towards more civilian slots (STS as the above poster called it).

Again, waivers are possible and timing is everything.

Best of luck!

Scout

Scout,
When you mention that prior flight times usually don’t do much good, are you referring to prior rotor time or prior fixed wing time, or is it all the same?


GryphonRyder,
Since you recently finished IERW last year, were all the 4 tracks (64, 60, 58, 47) available or was anyone of them not on the “list” of choices?

Changing my story a little bit here...don't consider enlisting on the advice of a generic recruiter, he is out to use you to fill his quotas.

But if a specific guard unit is serious about you as a pilot candidate and they want you to enlist that might be worth doing. But this should come from the ANG unit, after some serious discussion.

I have a question for everyone. What is the difference in joining (reserve vs guard) when going for a helo slot? How are you selected? Let's say I want to joint the reserves for the WOFT program, do I apply to a specific unit? Or does the Army decide which airframe and unit I'll be assigned?

[QUOTE=cargo hopeful;842165]Scout,
When you mention that prior flight times usually don’t do much good, are you referring to prior rotor time or prior fixed wing time, or is it all the same?

Prior civilian flight experience is pretty much a check in the box that it does exist.....fixed wing time is most prevalent; rotor wing would be rare for an applicant. Not to generalize but mostly it means that the applicant has had someone to pay for the training or has loans to pay their way through training. It has no bearing on whether the individual will be an asset to the military as an Army aviator or how successful they will be in the training.

Helos in USAR??
 

I don't think the Army Reserve has Helo slots, just Guard if looking into the PT 'gig'.

The 101 RQS, NYANG should be having UPT and rated boards this fall...

101st Rescue Squadron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not sure who's running the board but a call to recruiting would steer you in the right direction. Contact an officer recruiter in the link below.

106th Rescue Wing, New York Air National Guard - Home

The reserves are adding several MEDEVAC units with recapped L's cascaded from active duty as M-model's come online. 12 new companies was being thrown around a couple years ago as part of the Theatre Aviation Brigade initiative, but I have no idea what the final decision was. I imagine the process would be much the same as the Guard.

There is also a some RC-12's in the reserves, California, I think. Those are mostly commisioned slots.

So as I understand it there are baiscally two options. 1. Enter the WOFT program and whatever unit and airframe your assigned is up to the needs of the army, or 2. apply to a guard unit? Thanks for any and all help, as I'm trying to figure out how everything works.

Pretty much

Be careful...
 

This recruiter sounds like a real scumbag. Since you already have your Bachelor's degree, he should be hooking you up with an officer's commission or going in as a warrant officer. He's trying to waste your education and I think it's despicable.

You non-rotorheads need to chill the heck out. 99% of ALL ARNG units do not hire off the streets. The State sets their own requirements for recruiting pilots, namely "MUST be a member of the XX ARNG in good standing."

This entitlement attitude you clowns have amazes me. When was the last time your RJ or Cessna took an RPG shot aimed at the cockpit? Not everyone can do this, and not every one should. Just because some is qualified on paper, doesn't mean they are qualified to actually do the job.

Re-Posted for emphasis:

"It also gives people in the unit a chance to see how the individual handles the military. Just because you have 3000 hours does not mean you will be the guy that adds to the unit.

It is a leap of faith and I can understand your hesitation, remember the unit is taking one on you too.

RSDude, your way off on the facts here. First of all back off with of the scumbag comments. This guy is serving his country and recruiting for an "all volunteer force", it's not an easy job. I doubt you have served a single day since you apparently know nothing about what it takes to become an officer. A recruiter can't "hook you up" with a commission or let you "go in" as a Warrant Officer. You have to first be tested, apply and get accepted to go to OCS (Officer Candidate School). You still enter as an enlisted soldier and go to basic training with other enlisted soldiers before you go to 3 months of OCS, if you make it, then you get a commission. There is a similar route for Warrant Officers also. Bottom line, just because you have a BS degree the military owes you nothing. Don't give out advice if you don't know what you’re talking about.

Nothing wrong serving in a non aviation way. Your job will be waiting for you when you finish training-Nat'l Grd, Reserve- and use VA benefits for adv flight training.