Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Career Builder > Military
IRR Promotion Boards? >

IRR Promotion Boards?

Notices
Military Military Aviation

IRR Promotion Boards?

Old 01-29-2011, 02:05 PM
  #1  
New Hire
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 5
Default IRR Promotion Boards?

Strange situation that I am looking for any help possible on:

I separated from the active duty AF in May 2007 under the Voluntary Separation Program (VSP). When I did so I was automatically placed in the Individual Ready Reserve (IRR).

Apparently you still face promotion boards in the IRR. My first one was about a year ago and my second one is Monday. The unfortunate thing about these boards is the fact that you can't get promoted on them. I spoke with ARPC on Friday and they indicated that 1100 of us would be reviewed in this board and 1 would be promoted. The IRR is simply a holding pool of names of people that can be recalled. You aren't active in any unit. It's not surprising that nobody gets promoted off of it...what is surprising is that they even have IRR promotion boards.

The ARPC folks explained that by law you must meet the board. They are trying to get the law changed because they are actually only shooting themselves in the foot. Once you are passed over twice (twice deferred) they kick you out of the IRR.

So here is my issue...I am currently being recruited by a Guard unit. They were the ones that actually informed me of my grim situation just yesterday. They called and said, "you have a great record and we definitely want you. the problem is that you are facing your second board on Monday 1/31 and if you are passed over (which i certainly will be) then we can't recruit you."

So...this is basically a technicality that is biting me in the butt. I called ARPC to beg to have my name held from the board. They explained that by law, 1100 of us WILL meet the board Monday. No dodging that. They also explained that I WILL get passed over. I will then be kicked off the IRR in 7 months. I really don't care about that...what I do care about is getting into the Guard or reserves. This all just seems so strange considering I'm not doing anything wrong but it feels like I am being punished.

Here are my questions:

1. Has anybody ever faced this? Did you get around it?

2. Does anybody know if being twice deferred is a 100% deal breaker for Guard or Reserves. I separated as a Captain. I have heard there are waivers because this rule is ridiculous.

3. What would happen if you did get picked up by a unit? I assume you would meet a final board and hope to be promoted but is that the case?

4. ARPC indicated my best hope is to try to get the promotion boards expunged from my record. They indicated the best way to do that is to prove that I never should have been on the IRR, and thus, should never have met these boards. Apparently the record change happens through the BCMR process. Does anyone have any guidance or experience with this? I do have one angle to work which is the fact that my DD214 indicates I should have been terminated from the reserves in 2008. They put the date of 6/2008 in error. I am hoping I can somehow use this error to be removed from the IRR and have the boards expunged.

I'm hoping my situation is clear here. I haven't done anything wrong and have an excellent record. I am simply trying to join the Guard (which some would consider the "right" thing to do). I never could have avoided these boards and they don't actually promote anyone off of them.

Help! Willing to listen to any advice. Hoping someone else has seen this and successfully navigated it or some part of it.

Thanks in advance!
tatin12 is offline  
Old 01-30-2011, 04:39 AM
  #2  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Texandrvr's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 105
Default

Yeah, I know of someone who couldn't get hired at a reserve unit for this very same reason. I'll look into it and see if he has had any luck.
Texandrvr is offline  
Old 01-30-2011, 06:35 AM
  #3  
Prime Minister/Moderator
 
rickair7777's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,100
Default

The navy is a little bit different...people can and do get promoted in the IRR, you compete equally with the drillers and it is all based on your service record not the fact that you are in the IRR at that moment. But obviously you need a track record in-grade to compete with, if you have been in the IRR for too long you simply won't have the track record documented.

A guy who's on track but has been in the IRR for six months will get promoted. A super-stellar guy who has been in the IRR for 2-3 years might get promoted.

You can try sending an overnight letter to the board explaining that you are being recruited at this time, who knows you might be the one guy out of the bunch.

If all else fails, resign from the USAFR and attempt to affiliate with another branch reserve component. If you can find a flight slot you might not lose any or much rank. If you have to go non-flight you can then immediately start looking for flight slots. The USAFR might never take you back as a 2X FOS, not sure about ANG. I suspect you could eventually get a flight slot in the army guard. Since your FOS was based on an administrative technicality, not performance, you should be able to explain your way around it. I guess it all depends on how bad you want to serve / fly.
rickair7777 is offline  
Old 01-30-2011, 06:41 AM
  #4  
New Hire
 
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 2
Default

From AFI 36-2501 Officer Promotions and Selective Continuation:


2.10. Writing Letters to a Board.
2.10.1. Officers eligible for promotion may write a letter to the board. Eligible officers:
2.10.1.1. Submit the letter in good faith, and ensure it contains accurate information to the best of their knowledge.
2.10.1.2. Sign and date the letter.
2.10.1.3. Send the letter to HQ AFPC/DPPPO so it arrives no later than (NLT) 2359 (Central
Standard Time) the day prior to the board convening date. Letters arriving after 2359 the day prior to the board will not be presented to the board for consideration.
2.10.1.4. If the letter writer requests return of the letter, he/she must provide a stamped,
self-addressed envelope.
2.10.2. HQ AFPC/DPPPO advises officers when letters do not meet the above requirements and either returns or destroys the letter.
2.10.2.1. Letters on behalf of other officers are not permitted, although individuals may provide
relevant attachments to their own letters. Any attachments addressed directly to the board will
cause the entire letter to be returned to the eligible officer.
2.10.2.2. Attachments or documents that can become a permanent part of the officer's record; e.g., draft/proposed/final PRFs considered by previous selection boards, unsigned draft/proposed officer performance reports or decoration narratives are not permitted.
2.10.2.3. Letters with attachments will not exceed 10 pages: 5 two-sided pages or 10 one-sided
pages. Letters exceeding 10 pages will be returned to the officers.

Try and get a "tentative hire letter" from the Guard unit that is interested in picking you up. If you can get that, write a letter to the board explaining the cirumstances you face if they pass you over before the Guard is able to gain you officially. Then, and probably most difficult, find a way to get it to AFPC/DPPPO by 2359 tonight. Worst case I would try and fax a copy to any office in AFPC that I could get a number for and follow up with the original as fast as possible. Maybe RND command post would do you a favor and run the fax over to AFPC and slide it under DPPPO's door?
Snake Bit is offline  
Old 01-30-2011, 10:01 AM
  #5  
New Hire
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 5
Default writing letters

I actually did write a letter to the board as soon as I found out about this entire mess two days ago. The good news is that process is tremendously easy because it was all done online. I spoke to someone in the promotions office before sending it just to get an idea of what to write. She said that I really didn't need to spend much time on it...just explain the facts. Let them know that I am being hired by a unit, etc. She said no need to get a letter from the unit (which they offered to write) because you can only provide letters from yourself.

I mentioned that I would provide my contact's name and number in the unit. She said don't bother...we won't look into it or call with 1100 IRR files to review. I did this anyhow. She also said I shouldn't spend much time on the letter because only 1 out of 1100 of us on the list will get promoted so it really won't be a big factor. I am honestly wondering why she encouraged me to write the letter at all.

So, yes, my letter is in my file (called to confirm that as well) but, no, it won't make a difference. I figured it couldn't hurt.

My only real hope here, as far as I can see, is to call ARPC tomorrow morning first thing and see if there is any way I can get off the IRR immediately so that when the promotion board reviews my file this week they will see I am off. The chance of that happening is very, very slim but still worth a call particularly because there has been confusion on the date that my IRR should end anyhow.

The second option, if that doesn't work, is to pursue the record change (BCMR) process after the fact. I can attempt to use all the confusion surrounding my IRR termination date (which is their fault and in error on my DD214) to make an argument that I was led to believe I shouldn't be in the IRR, and thus, shouldn't have met these boards in the first place.

If that stuff doesn't work then it is time to look into waivers and other branches. I have no problem with that. Someone mentioned that and I think it is a good idea. How does that work in terms of being "passed up" twice? Would they ignore that in another service? Would I be promotable there?

Thank you all for the help. I appreciate all the comments. I know others have dealt with this and maybe some have succeeded. Any ideas to work this out are welcomed.
tatin12 is offline  
Old 01-30-2011, 02:09 PM
  #6  
New Hire
 
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 2
Default

If you are serious about joining the Guard and they are serious about hiring you, I would contact my Senators' and appropriate Congressman's offices (as well as the gaining units if they are not the same) first thing tomorrow and detail the situation to them. Worst case: won't hurt to let them know what is about to happen to you should you choose to pursue the Congressional path in the future over this event in your career. Best case: They pick up the phone and start calling DPPPO about you tomorrow morning.
Snake Bit is offline  
Old 01-30-2011, 02:19 PM
  #7  
New Hire
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 5
Default

Excellent advice Snake Bit. I hadn't thought of that but will definitely do that. I am very serious about this. Thank you for the advice.
tatin12 is offline  
Old 01-30-2011, 02:35 PM
  #8  
Gets Weekends Off
 
KC10 FATboy's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Legacy FO
Posts: 4,094
Default

Tatin12:

Most likely I have bad news for you. I personally know five individuals who have been affected by this IRR snafu.

In three cases, the individuals were Captains and had not been promoted to Major at time of separation. They were then twice past over. Unfortunately, no USAF or other military service could hire them (Reserve or Guard).

Two of my friends were scheduled to pin on Major (already met the board and were promoted) at time of separation. After *a lot* of phone calls down to USAFR HQ, we were able to get USAFR to honor their previous board results.
KC10 FATboy is offline  
Old 01-30-2011, 04:36 PM
  #9  
New Hire
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 5
Default

Yup, that's what I'm afraid of. How on earth do they keep this such a secret until it is about to screw you?

Why don't they send a notice that says something like, "You will be meeting your second promotion board for Major in 12 months. You probably don't realize it because you aren't active and also not in a reserve or guard unit. Yes, we conduct promotion boards in the IRR and you CAN'T be promoted off of them. No way, no how. Be advised that if you don't join an actual unit at least 6 months (because the hiring takes that long) before your promotion board in x month, you will get passed over for the second time and kicked out. A guard or reserve unit from any branch of the service can't take you if that happens."

That's the first issue, next is why on earth do they conduct IRR promotion boards? Why would they want to make perfectly qualified people ineligible to rejoin.

Ok, next question...any ideas on how I can get out of the IRR tomorrow morning so that I never meet the board? Hey, shot in the dark that somebody can tell me how to instantly get myself removed tomorrow.
tatin12 is offline  
Old 01-31-2011, 11:47 AM
  #10  
Gets Weekends Off
 
KC10 FATboy's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Legacy FO
Posts: 4,094
Default

When is the active duty / reserve board? I don't know what the promotion rates of reservists are (I would suspect it is not an issue). However, without having time with a rater and bullets, even if you got in today, it may still already be too late.

I was always told, make sure you get to Major. Not sure why other than retirement. But perhaps this is another.
KC10 FATboy is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Oblongata01
Military
2
04-20-2010 08:37 AM
jared4271987
Hiring News
1
10-14-2009 11:21 PM
choxy
Military
2
07-29-2009 05:23 AM
Albief15
Cargo
24
06-07-2008 08:51 AM
pilotss
Major
5
12-10-2007 09:31 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices