elcapitano

In 2012 I would have served 13 years active duty (7 years away from a 20 year retirement). I have an opportunity to go to school for a year in DC, followed by a staff tour (probably in DC) - taking me further from flying w/ more responsibility. School extends my commitment to 2015. If I take the 'bonus' to stay in next year - $125K for 5 more years of service - I'm committed to 2017 - 2 years away from collecting military retirement at 42 (2019). I would still need to work b/c the retirement is roughly $30-35K/year (take home). OR Should I get out in 2012 - go reserves to finish 7 years to collect retirement at 60 - and start flying for the airlines in 2012? 7 years means alot of seniority in the airlines. Esp. when all the airline pilots hit 65yrs old in 2012. I'm ready to start a family - is it best to do this with or without the military...because since 9//11 active duty military is relentless on the family life...gone 200-250 days/year...1 year deployments are a norm. I've enjoyed my time in the military when I was single. But now engaged to be married - I'm re-evaluating my time, quality of life, and potential to earn. Thanks in advance for your response.

KennHC130

I faced the same situation you are in about 12 years ago. I chose to get out with 13 years exactly. Took a little family time off and went airlines. Life was great until some idiots started running airplanes into buildings. Without warning...no job, income, medical insurance, etc. Just a line number. 9+ years later and still waiting for a call back. I got VERY lucky and jumped back into active duty, but I would never make the same decision again. My advice, if you can pull it off, would be to punch, get into a guard/reserve gig, and get into the airlines. QOL is everything, and you are exactly right, the military is pure H-E-double toothpicks on the family life these days. Since you are just starting the family thing, you could get your probationary/reserve time out of the way before little ones come along. The guard/reserve gig is pretty critical in my opinion. I didn't do it, and it bit me in the A$$ when I got furloughed. If I had, I could have activated immediately and had pay and bennies. Please...Don't do what I did and gamble. Like I said, I was really lucky.

Grumble

Something else to think about, if you're going down the staff pipeline and away from the cockpit that's not going to help you as far as getting ready for an airline job on the back side.

Total experience is one thing, but if you've been out of the cockpit for a few years opon retirement that's going to be a hurdle to over come.

You're also rolling the dice on the retirement, lots of rumors going around right now about rolling it back with all the cost reductions. Given the monetary hole the gubmint is in right now, I don't think anything is off limits.

Elvis90

I stayed to 20 years and now I fly for Delta. Guarranteed retirement is very helpful. However, you are at the beginning of a significant hiring wave due to both retirements and growth. I concur with Kenn -- go Reserve, get hired and live by your Reserve gig so you don't have a double commute. QOL at the airline will be significantly higher than the USAF with no more moves or deployments. Pay increases are forthcoming as well; as airlines make record profits and as demand for qualified pilots increases, pay will follow. At Delta I will move up at least 3,000 seniority numbers by 2020; 6,000 by 2025; and 10,000 by 2030.

Pancake

I'm in the middle of making the same decision-stay or go. I'm not a school select, despite "checking all the squares." If I do separate, I will likely not go to the airlines-looking at law school. My dad did 20+ years at Midwest Airlines and I have a passion for commercial flying and the lifestyle, but it's not what it used to be. Like Kenn said, a huge consideration is ANG/AFRC. I love military flying too much to give it up and I must finish 20 to get some semblance of a retirement.

My family loves the tight-knit military lifestyle. My motivator for getting out is opportunity. My motivation has started to wane after being passed-over on several program/opportunity applications (didn't even get picked up for FW or OG exec despite volunteering). There's a lot of opportunity for officers/aviators outside of the military, both flying and not flying. An ANG/AFRC job would allow you to continue serving while pursuing other career/life goals (mine: politics, multiple homes, a cool airplane, Catholic school for the kids).

It's a tough decision. The only good advice is if you do get out, make sure you get an ANG/AFRC job.

webecheck

financially, getting out now would be the worst decision you could possibly make, unless of course you went agr guard/reserves. i am in the same boat as you. i was nerdy enough to create a spreadsheet analyzing it all. the problem is 2 things: 1, the bonus, albeit small, helps alot when factoring compounding interest over time, and 2, the initial pay cut you take when entering the airlines. w/o a bonus and w/ a higher starting airline salary it would be a decision solely factored on qol. if you live paycheck to paycheck then it doesnt matter b/c money is irrelevant to you. however, if you have a nest egg already and one of your goals is to grow it to the max and put yourself in the best financial position as possible, then getting out at 11.5 years or later(as computed in my analysis) is ludicrous. more notes: if you wont make it past 0-3, or you can get hired by ups or fedex then the decision is less lopsided in the usaf's favor. furthermore, you must compute your desired retirement age. the lower the number the more advantageous staying in is. now, if you can transfer to a guard/reserve agr billet and retire from that doing the job of your choice then you have found the holy grail imo.

again, i computed it all, call me a nerd if you will.....and my 3 goals were: continue to support my family with the same cash flow i have now, retire (i mean no work retire) at as young an age as possible, and lastly, grow my savings to the max while minimizing risk. the end result was: search for the holy grail and if unable to find it, suffer until 20. then, i can get a lcc airline job and fly caribbean routes with minimal time changes while counting my money and knowing that i can say F.U. to the man any day i want b/c i suffered through a couple extra middle east deployments and pcs's. just my .02, cuz you asked.

Elvis90

This question helped me decide:

Where do you want to be 5-10 years from now? Establish milestones now to achieve your goal.

Do you want to be a squadron commander? O-6? Work for the gov't as a contractor after you retire? Pursue your current course. (don't forget deployments, including 365's)

Do you want to fly for the rest of your career? Have significant pay increases and QOL? Get hired by a reputable airline or cargo company.

Pancake

Good advice, great perspective.

Grumble

I did the same thing, in a different fashion. I computer out career earning potential to age 60. Assuming retirement at 60 with pay check/bennies then going to an airline, and upgrading to captain at 10 years.

Then I looked at getting out at 12, going guard/reserve (with the minumum drill per year) and again, 10 year upgrade to captain.

Bottom line, the earning potential of the guy that gets out at 12 years and does the reserve/airline gig will make significantly more money up to age 60. By a factor of almost a million dollar at Southwest and FedEx (at current pay rates).

That being said, it's a complete crap shoot. You'll only know for certain the day you set the parking brake for the last time. All you can do is plan with what info you have, and right now the info says

1.) Gov't is looking at cost cutting across the board
2.) RIF is probably not far off
3.) Bonus has already been cut down
4.) Retirment cut's are already being floated
5.) Airlines posted record profits last year
6.) All are top heavy and poised for massive retirements
7.) Airlines seem to have learned capacity discipline, and I think are more resilient to fuel cost surges

Two years ago, this was a completely different picture. Two years from now, the pendulum may go the other way. No one has a crystal ball to say for certain, just look at what you and your family want to do, and go from there.

webecheck

im hopeful they offer a 15 yr early retirement pension opportunity or a lump sum buyout. either case ill take off running and not look back. its been done before and the conditions are ripe for it to be done again. with downsizing the force and uav's continuing to grow, how useful is a pilot after 15 yos.....i say fly em nonstop til 15, then cut em loose. the general wanna be's can go do staff, ide, and all that other bull$hit. contract white jets with your retired pilots.