AOC Course
 

I am looking for any info on the AOC course. I think it is at Hurlburt for about a month. Anyone done it yet, got any info? Thanks AT

I did the AOC course back in 2007. Not too bad, the tests only required studying for an hour or two the night before. There was a useful exercise at the end that lasted about three days if I remember correctly, and if your class doesn't shoot down the A-50 Mainstay then you probably did something wrong.

There was a website they had on NIPR back in the day where you had to fill out your information to get registered ahead of time, not sure if that system is still in use.


Otherwise, when I was there they had everybody lodged on base and we had to share a rental car between 4 people unless you drove yourself down. Things may have changed but at the time the cited budget cutbacks. I went to the beach everyday after class and on the weekends. I thought the instructors were pretty good too. I think the ATC guys spent the most hours in class. Overall, I hated working in the AOC but the TDY to hurlburt was pretty nice.

Thank you much.

You have to do a weeks worth of CBTs before you attend. They cut a week from the original AOC course (hence the CBTs). I believe it is just shy of 30 days now ... so if you are a reservist, no health care for you.

If you go for air refueling, your life is going to suck as you will be busy while the cargo folks are out early on most days.

The CBTs are a waste of your time, but you have to have them completed before attending. The lectures in the main hall (not the AMD lectures) aren't worth your time, but you have to attend. They will give you a no jeopardy test on the first of second day to see what you learned from the CBTs. If you score well on the test, and the end of course test, you will receive DG.

If you are in the AMD, you will most likely stay in base housing. Every person we've sent has been in base housing including myself. The other AFSCs stay downtown Fort Walton Beach or Destin. I was glad to stay in base housing. The geckos provide comic relief -- just don't step on them while going to the bathroom in the middle of the night! Get up 20 minutes prior to class and jump in the car. Traffic into Hurlburt can be bad.

All of the AMD folks are great. Beer and brauts or other cookouts for lunch. Volleyball and beer in the evenings.

Enjoy the fun.

STRONGLY recommend you drive your own wheels if at all possible. If not you have to share one of their cars with 3 strangers and you might be hostage to the amoeba for dinner/gym pushes.

Other than that, slow paced course. Lots of free time to the point that it's frustrating because it will be in the form of a 3 hour lunch break more often than it will be an off by 1300 thing.

YGTBSM...30 days to learn how to operate in an AOC? Only in the USAF...not meant as a jab, just saying that's crazy talk!

The USMC, USN, USA also send their people to the same course. It is a DOD course, not a USAF course.

I had to sit there and learn about all of the distinctive capabilities of the USN, USMC, USA ... on and on. I wanted to gouge my eyes and ears out. I kept saying, "How is this going to make me a better Tanker DO?"

They can definitely shorten the course for 99% of individuals there. For the tanker bubbas, it is a demanding course. And only then are you briefly exposed to what your job is really going to be in an AOC.

Interesting, I attended an IAMD conference at Hurlburt and that wasn't the impression I got from the schoolhouse reps there. Having been in the AOCs in Osan, Tyndall & Tuscon I think you're right. Its hilarious to me that DoD spends that money keeping that course alive when the resident/corporate knowledge for a given AOR resides in THAT AOC, not some CBT or lecture in FL.

I agree and disagree with you. The AOCs are a mess when it comes to standardization and they don't always have it right. However, the FTU can also get out of Fort Walton Beach and learn a couple of new tricks.

For example, IMHO, Osan should never have an AOC. You can't tell me with a straight face that if NK comes south, that Osan's AOC is going to remain. During a shoot'em war, will they be able to send troops and equipment from Travis to Osan in order to stand up the AMD portion? Not only no, but hell no. So why do we allow these AOCs and commands to play these stupid games? Move the crap back to Hickam, Japan, or Guam. South Korea will get over it. If they want to die in the HTAC, let them.

The schoolhouse. A select few of those bubbas pushed for the ATP-56B crap air refueling procedures. What is more disturbing is that AMC adopted it, overnight, without even consulting the shooters and bombers. Some LtCols and Majors at the FTU got their OPR bullets. Mark my words, there will be an accident that will be directly contributed to the woeful procedures in this document.

The schoolhouse is quick to show how several of the AOCs are currently violating doctrine. Now I agree with having the flexibility to change things, especially doctrine, if the situation is right. However, we've been doing things doctrinally incorrect for so long, the new cadre of folks wouldn't even know that the way they're doing business is wrong and we learned those lessons the hard way a long time ago. But if we get into a big shoot'em war, think Gulf War I or larger scale war (GWII doesn't come close), we are screwed from a doctrine aspect and we will again learn the hard way.

The next big hatchet that's going to fall is AOC consolidation. I think with all these funding cuts you're going to see a lot of AOCs combined, or at least the mobility part brought back to Scott.

Yeah, and why is an AOC a "weapons system" anyway? Does that get them more funding or something?

I could be wrong, but it is treated this way to mirror the training in an actual flying weapon system because people are planning missions for major weapon systems. You have training folders, instructors, etc. You then have a "check ride" with documentation to ensure people are qualified in the required procedures for each position. You then have continuation training and must attend a major exercise on a recurring basis. You get a code on your AFSC once you are trained and qualified. This process ensures standardization and ensures only qualified people work in the AOC. Do you want Airman Snuffy planning your bombing run, air refuelings, drop zones, etc. etc.. No. You want people who know what the hell they're doing and when the General asks them a question, they can speak to it.

In the AMD, pilots AFSCs at a minimum have to be Aircraft Commanders. Ideally, they want people who are instructors if not an evaluators. I might be mistaken, but anyone thrown into a Strategy position must be a patch wearer.

A lot of people poke fun at the AOC. I know, I was one of them. I used to ***** and whine when "CAOC" told me to do something that didn't make any sense. However, after working there, I now understand why things are the way they are. Still doesn't make it right, but there are reasons to the madness.

Already happening (601/612 for instance). Navy, same deal...2nd FLT going away and consolidating with USFF. That would be like 1AF merging with ACC.

I'm an old C-5/new 17 guy. What is that AOC course. FNG...sorry.

It is a course taught down at the schoolhouse in Hurlburt Field. If you have done your schooling, you will know what an AOC or CAOC (Combined Air Operations Center) is. These are the people that control your mission ... or screw it up. If it flies through the air, it is on an ATO created by a CAOC.

Most heavy USAF pilots seem to think CAOC is the term for the boys at the Deid. But in reality, TACC is a CAOC and there are other CAOCs around the world, including NATO CAOCs.

Air and Space Operations Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This tool is really hamming it up.



And even more propaganda ...

Is it a good school to attend? A reserve guy is always looking for courses on the beach. Capt/Major type...

Unless you aren't willing to work in a CAOC, I wouldn't go to the course. You get a prefix on your AFSC and it doesn't come off. You're forever marked as one of us.

Brief thread revival. I would be interested to hear anyone's opinion on joining an AOC Guard/Reserve unit after punching off of active duty as a pilot. In my case my civilian job probably won't allow me to fly in the Guard/Reserve because of the number of days required away in addition to the 'standard' 1 weekend per month and 2 weeks per year. I have accepted this decided that looking for non-flying gigs is best for me, but I want to stay connected to military aviation. I’ve been looking at the AOC as a way to stay involved in aviation and do something interesting while finishing the last 9 years towards retirement. Is this a sound judgment, or is joining an AOC unit going to require a time commitment beyond the traditional 1 weekend month/2 weeks per year? I understand that a 90-180 TDY a few times to the Sandbox will be in order as an AOC bubba, but aside from these do AOC units typically require you to dedicate additional days each month while at home to support operations? And, overall, are the ops while working in an AOC rewarding or is it just painful staff nonsense? (Yes, I watched the AOC YouTube videos on this thread) Thanks in advance for opinions/inputs.

Before you apply, you may want to see how it pans out with upcoming DoD decisions:

Cost-cutting prompts massive reorganization

ANG/AFRC AOC Unit Recommended
 

Turbo,

Based on your requirement for min participation but “staying in the game,” I believe an ANG/AFRC AOC unit is a nice fit. You would be able to stick predominately to a 2-day per month, 15-day active TDY tour per year—perhaps an additional 2-week exercise per year based upon your specific unit. The 179-day desert tour is not a requirement unless you volunteer.

AFRC has two AOC units—one on each coast: 701COS at March ARB, CA and the 710th at Langley; Seasoned ANG AOC units are in NY, PA, MO, FL as well as some fledgling ANG AOC units developing elsewhere; pick the one closest to you to minimize the commute. Chat with each about your participation requirements and to understand their tasking alignment. Example: If you like Bulgogi —the 701st is aligned with Korea, MOANG with Hawaii, NYANG to Europe, etc. That may play into your decision wrt where you want to fight/survive at when the balloon goes up.

IMO, the AOC is one of the last bastions of the traditional Guard/Reserve units where you can enjoy the Reserve program, as they are free from any TFI association with the Active Duty—this is a good thing. TFI units (combined ANG/AFRC and AD units) will drive you into the dirt—they have merged the AD inefficiency with what used to be a good ANG/AFRC unit program and have made the participation requirements nearly unmanageable for a Reservist. I would not recommend an AFRC IMA position either—the paperwork drill associated with the IMA program is onerous and the fact you augment said inefficient AD makes that program frustrating at many levels.

If you do not have the participation available to fly for the ANG/AFRC, then I believe the AOC is the next best mission. The AD budget restructuring will not affect your ability to join an ANG or AFRC AOC unit. Do some homework, chat with the units, pick your AOC, participate as you desire and “stay in the game.” Good luck.

Kolohe,
Thanks for the reply- very helpful and nice to hear that the AOC mission sounds like a good one to be part of. I know exactly what you mean about TFI. Coming from the USN it is called ARI (Active-Reserve Integration) and it has similarly been successful in hurting morale and doing away with many formerly good deals.

Nyang?
 

Is anyone on here in the 152nd AOG or EADS in the NYANG or have any gouge on those units? Please feel free to PM me if you don't won't to post an open reply, thanks!