What Constitutes A Sortie?
03-21-2011, 09:02 AM
#1
Administrator
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: C-172
Posts: 8,024
What Constitutes A Sortie?
I'm following the news about Libya and read in several places that coalition forces "flew 70 to 80 sorties on Monday, up from 60 on Sunday."
What is a sortie?
Is it the number of aircraft flown?
Number of bombs dropped from each aircraft?
What if it was a miss?
Count the Tomahawks, which I understand is launched from ships?
What if an aircraft encounters the enemy and has to engage?
Do the pilots keep track of his/her own sorties?
70 to 80 sorties implies that command doesn't know exactly how many?
What is a sortie?
Is it the number of aircraft flown?
Number of bombs dropped from each aircraft?
What if it was a miss?
Count the Tomahawks, which I understand is launched from ships?
What if an aircraft encounters the enemy and has to engage?
Do the pilots keep track of his/her own sorties?
70 to 80 sorties implies that command doesn't know exactly how many?
03-21-2011, 09:06 AM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
Vagabond -
From Dictionary.com:
Why the ambiguity? Probably because they don't want to give an exact number.
They know EXACTLY how many flights there were on any day - if you care to look deep enough.
Yes - pilots know how many sorties they have flown through a variety of means. All the same types of paperwork that any pilot / company keeps.
USMCFLYR
From Dictionary.com:
the flying of an airplane on a combat mission.
They know EXACTLY how many flights there were on any day - if you care to look deep enough.
Yes - pilots know how many sorties they have flown through a variety of means. All the same types of paperwork that any pilot / company keeps.
USMCFLYR
03-21-2011, 03:36 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 124
Originally Posted by vagabond
I'm following the news about Libya and read in several places that coalition forces "flew 70 to 80 sorties on Monday, up from 60 on Sunday."
What is a sortie?
Is it the number of aircraft flown? SOMEWHAT--# OF A/C & # OF TIMES IT/THEY ARE FLOWN
Number of bombs dropped from each aircraft? NO
What if it was a miss? N/A
Count the Tomahawks, which I understand is launched from ships? NO
What if an aircraft encounters the enemy and has to engage? NO
Do the pilots keep track of his/her own sorties? SOME DO, BUT THE ORGANIZATION IS SUPPOSED TO.
70 to 80 sorties implies that command doesn't know exactly how many?
What is a sortie?
Is it the number of aircraft flown? SOMEWHAT--# OF A/C & # OF TIMES IT/THEY ARE FLOWN
Number of bombs dropped from each aircraft? NO
What if it was a miss? N/A
Count the Tomahawks, which I understand is launched from ships? NO
What if an aircraft encounters the enemy and has to engage? NO
Do the pilots keep track of his/her own sorties? SOME DO, BUT THE ORGANIZATION IS SUPPOSED TO.
70 to 80 sorties implies that command doesn't know exactly how many?
For FW and TR aircraft-
When an "aircraft first moves forward on its takeoff run or takes off vertically from rest at any point of support and ends after airborne flight when the aircraft is on the surface for five minutes."
It becomes semi-vague for rotary wing assets-
"For helicopters, a flight begins when the aircraft lifts from a rest point or commences ground taxi and ends after airborne flight when the rotors are disengaged or the aircraft has been stationary for 5 minutes with rotors engaged."
As a result, many RW pilots log from rotors engaged to engine shutdown.
RB
03-21-2011, 03:39 PM
#6
Administrator
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: C-172
Posts: 8,024
Ok, I hate to pick nits, but I am still a little confused.
If a sortie, according to Dictionary.com, is "the flying of an airplane in combat," I have the follow up questions.
Helicopters don't count?
Flying gas stations don't count?
"70 to 80 sorties" means 70 to 80 unique airplanes?
Or can one airplane have more than one sortie?
Or is it simply that each time an airplane takes off on a mission, that is one sortie?
Man, this is like discussing the minutiae of a latte, a cappuccino, a white chocolate mocha, a dark chocolate mocha, 2% milk. Or how about discussing the difference between fat free milk and non-fat milk?
Addition: ah, I see RickyBobby answered my original questions. Let me examine them before asking any more.
If a sortie, according to Dictionary.com, is "the flying of an airplane in combat," I have the follow up questions.
Helicopters don't count?
Flying gas stations don't count?
"70 to 80 sorties" means 70 to 80 unique airplanes?
Or can one airplane have more than one sortie?
Or is it simply that each time an airplane takes off on a mission, that is one sortie?
Man, this is like discussing the minutiae of a latte, a cappuccino, a white chocolate mocha, a dark chocolate mocha, 2% milk. Or how about discussing the difference between fat free milk and non-fat milk?
Addition: ah, I see RickyBobby answered my original questions. Let me examine them before asking any more.
03-21-2011, 04:01 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 124
Originally Posted by vagabond
Ok, I hate to pick nits, but I am still a little confused.
If a sortie, according to Dictionary.com, is "the flying of an airplane in combat," I have the follow up questions.
Helicopters don't count?
Flying gas stations don't count?
"70 to 80 sorties" means 70 to 80 unique airplanes?
Or can one airplane have more than one sortie?
Or is it simply that each time an airplane takes off on a mission, that is one sortie?
Man, this is like discussing the minutiae of a latte, a cappuccino, a white chocolate mocha, a dark chocolate mocha, 2% milk. Or how about discussing the difference between fat free milk and non-fat milk?
Addition: ah, I see RickyBobby answered my original questions. Let me examine them before asking any more.
If a sortie, according to Dictionary.com, is "the flying of an airplane in combat," I have the follow up questions.
Helicopters don't count?
Flying gas stations don't count?
"70 to 80 sorties" means 70 to 80 unique airplanes?
Or can one airplane have more than one sortie?
Or is it simply that each time an airplane takes off on a mission, that is one sortie?
Man, this is like discussing the minutiae of a latte, a cappuccino, a white chocolate mocha, a dark chocolate mocha, 2% milk. Or how about discussing the difference between fat free milk and non-fat milk?
Addition: ah, I see RickyBobby answered my original questions. Let me examine them before asking any more.
1) A C-17 takes off from U.A.E. and flies to Kabul, Bagram, Kandahar, then back to U.A.E. Per the Navy definition, this would be 4 sorties even though only one aircraft was flown.
2) A flight of four F/A-18s depart from USS Ship in the Med, strike targets in N Africa, and return to the ship. Per the Navy definition, this would be 4 sorties.
The USAF may have a slightly different definition of a sortie.
RB
03-21-2011, 04:10 PM
#8
trip trading freak
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: MD-11
Posts: 673
Air Force same. Take off to 5 minutes after landing equals one sortie. 10 minutes or 15 hour duration equals one sortie. 20 airplanes fly 4 different times = 80 sorties. 80 planes fly once = 80 sorties. What you do in between doesn't matter. Helos and UAVs do count as sorties. USMCFLRY is spot on for the ambiguity.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
