Instructor time?
 

For the single-pilot MIL bubbas making the airline transition soon, how are you logging Instructor time? As an IP with stud in the same jet? Flight lead with upgrade in another jet?

I went conservative and only used dual-controlled trainer flying with a student. Just curious since it doesn't seem to be well defined.

Both.
In addition to the obvious "dual with a student on-board", I log IP time when I have a student on my wing.
If the AFI allows it, then I log it.
I've never heard of anyone having a problem with it, and cannot think of a reason they should.

I went simplistic on this because I could not reconstruct (nor did I want to try so hard) through 7 years of instructing, so I put an explanation that ALL years spent between xxx-xxx and xxx-xxx are considered IP time. There are of course some flights there (PMCFs or Admin legs) when I might not have had a student on my wing or been in the back of a student for instance. These are FAR overshadowed by the hours of IP time that I DID NOT log when I was in a fleet squadron acting as an instructor.

Take this approach with a grain of salt from my perspective though since I did not apply or interview with any P121 airlines. The places that I did interview with never gave it a second look in my opinion (nor paid much attention to my logbook period in my opinion).

USMCFLYR

For FAA purposes I don't think there is a provision for logging instructor time if the student was in another aircraft. If you ever need to use your IP time to meet FAA instructor requirements (such as 141 leadership positions) that time would be invalid.

If you ever end up apply for a civilian instructor job where they are actually looking for instructor time, they might look at you funny when they find out that a lot of your logged time was not in the same aircraft as the student.

Many airlines actually consider instructor time as second-rate time compared to actual pilot time...for that reason alone I would probably log section-lead instructor time as just flight time. If you were on the stick, take credit for it. Maybe keep a separate column for that sort of IP time.

Not necessarily true. While I haven't visited the FAA to update my certificate yet, they have accepted A-10 instructor time as sufficient for issuing a CFI. My understanding is that the FAA will grant a certificate with a supporting Form 8 (instructor check).

Wow - I've never heard another airline pilot that I worked with ever say that. Matter of fact, they always said that the airlines LOVE military instructor pilots.

As far as looking strangely at instructor time from another aircraft, then I guess they would not be too familiar with how single seat tactical pilots are trained then. I don't remember the exact numbers of sorties, but somewhere around 50% at least were single seat (solo) for the student, and I sure hope someone was instructing them :)

USMCFLYR

Any military time is good, including IP. But they want a breakdown and they may give preference to someone who has more stick time.

They are hiring you to fly, not instruct.

Not exactly. The equivalency is based on the TRAINING you received to qualify as an IP, not on your actual instructor time.

When I got my civilian CFI, it was also based on training and a checkride, not experience. I had logged zero dual-given at that point.

I'm not saying it is necessarily correct, but there is no provision in the FAR's to allow the logging of that kind of instructor time towards certain FAA experience requirements.

When you're flying AND instructing, whether it be from the same aircraft or a different one, then they also know that you can effectively multi-task, plus as we all know - instructing teaches you a lot about flying and working with others too.

USMCFLYR

All good stuff, thanks. I'm currently teaching at an FRS and did a tour 12+ years ago as well. My plan, conservative, is to count IP time as: 1) Student pilot in my front seat 2) Student pilot on my wing. Not planning on counting any of the fleet tactical upgrade flights, NVG quals, etc. Too hard to reconstruct.

I agree - that is why I went the route I did.
Good luck.
Which FRS btw?

USMCFLYR

Currently a guest IP at VFA-106. IP at FAT-101 a while back...

This is exactly 180 degrees out from everything I've ever been told about airline hiring, to include my own interview with Delta, and just doesn't really pass any sort of reason check. By this reasoning, they would deduct 50% of PIC time in a multi-crew airplane since it is presumed that the other pilot is "at the stick" every other leg. But, they do not. It's decision making that they are looking for in PIC time - and instrctor time is all about making decisions. Instructor time, being PIC by default, is the gold standard of flight time. It's more than just being the Captain. It's being a Capt, who also has to overcome the additional distractions of teaching, anticipating and managing errors, and not allowing them to cross a safe threshold.

Showcase your mil instructor time - the hiring dudes love it. In fact, if your a mil guy with 8+ years and no, or little, instructor time it will raise eyebrows. Why wasn't this guy ever allowed to instruct?

I'll give Rick the benefit of the doubt that he is confusing Instructor time in the sim building of an airline training center with instructor time we log in the military, which is in the jet and in command of the aircraft. But, if he is referring to IP time logged in the jet - he's simply wrong.

I'm a military guy who knows nothing, but every piece of advice I've ever been given matches what S2G said above. Anyone else have experience that matches Rick's advice? Obviously isn't going to change anything, I'm just curious.

My guess, if you're a mil bubba that did a tour as an IP (tracom, FRS, RTU, etc), the guys interviewing you will realize you taught student pilots and flew a ton!

Bottom line: Definition of IP time is clearly not well defined since none of us really know golden rule. I'm sure this can be easily explained in any interview...assuming you get one. Good luck to all.

Agree completely with S2G. My brief airline experience validated that they valued IP time.

While that may be true in terms of conventional wisdom, pilots of this generation have had to endure constant change...at least in ACC. TAMI 21, regular ALPHA tours, short-notice MC-12 gigs...it just ain't like it used to be where a guy could "grow" up in an MWS and reach EP in his first assignment or so. White jets, for AD bubbas, aren't dropping nearly in the quantities they once were. Maybe things are different in AMC, but in ACC it's difficult to stay flying in your MWS. Hell, sometimes it just difficult to stay flying, period. Ask just about any bro at Creech or Cannon. I flew the B-1, was an ALO for three years, did the MC-12 gig, and am now flying the RC-135. I have yet to reach IP in anything. I know bros in my situation are hoping the airlines will see value in the diversity of aircraft and missions. I'll be an IP for the first time in my last year (2013)...I think I'll be able to explain why during my DAL interview. If not, at least my frau makes good money.

No one was saying that you HAD to have military instructor time, just responding to a post that said the airlines didn't care for instructor time or would give more credit to other times.
Your background is everything that is required to go on to the P121 world. I wouldn't worry about having to explain anything.

USMCFLYR

Hey, what's all this generation talk !??.............. I'm not that old, am I?

Thanks for pointing out my over-simplification of those without IP time. I forgot how much the AF changed over the last 5 years, and yes, the MC-12 thing came about after I left the big Blue. So, maybe I am old.

Sounds like you have some solid experience that will make you more than qualified to drive a Delta jet. Good luck with the job hunt.

Rick,
Do you have a reference for the first paragraph? I don't know of any restriction stating it must be in the same a/c. Not many scenarios that would need multiple aircraft working together civilian. However, there are a multitude in the military. IMHO, If an instructor is instructing(teaching a student) skills related to his flying mission or aviation in general, then log IP time.

Not sure where the second statement came from either. Is this referencing instructing in a 152 vs flying sched ops? Everything I have heard is to the contrary.
PC

This is just, not true. It's not really even close to true.

Delta, for example, has you separate IP time from PIC when filling out their app. But, the program automatically includes it in the PIC total. They specifically want to separate it from simple PIC time because it is considered to be more advanced, involved, and desirable flight time. Pretty sure SWA, CAL, and AA are the same on their apps.

[QUOTE=rickair7777;970901]For FAA purposes I don't think there is a provision for logging instructor time if the student was in another aircraft. If you ever need to use your IP time to meet FAA instructor requirements (such as 141 leadership positions) that time would be invalid.

If you ever end up apply for a civilian instructor job where they are actually looking for instructor time, they might look at you funny when they find out that a lot of your logged time was not in the same aircraft as the student.

Many airlines actually consider instructor time as second-rate time compared to actual pilot time...for that reason alone I would probably log section-lead instructor time as just flight time. If you were on the stick, take credit for it. Maybe keep a separate column for that sort of IP time.[/QUOTE

Way off on your advice. What did you fly in the service and when did you get hired in the airlines?