Non-PIC AETC IP Time
 

After finishing my apps on PilotCredentials, I started the one on AirlineApps.com. When I got to the flight time section, my IP time was added to my non-IP PIC time to get total PIC. However, the common practice in AETC white jets is for IPs on CT sorties to split the IP time regardless of who the PIC is. If I use all of my IP time, my actual PIC time is inaccurate on this app. This was not the case on the pilotcredentials website; it kept the times split.

My questions are these:
1) Is there anything in the FARs that restrict IP time logging to only those hours where a person is the PIC?

2) Would having more IP time than PIC time raise a red flag at SWA/FEDEX interviews? Would they accept a memo in the front of my logbook explaining this?

Thanks,
Zac

1) IP time is PIC, by definition. When you are flying with a CFI, they are logging "dual given" as well as "PIC"...even if they are not flying the airplane.

Many airlines will only consider PIC time in which your name was the one on the flight authorization form (ergo, you 'signed for the jet').

Here's what FedEx says about it on their website:
This is why there are many folks who keep a civil logbook in which they log their time the FAA/airline way, rather than the USAF's way, because of these differences. It's mostly a problem with heavy dudes who are balancing PIC/SIC/Other time on each sortie.

2) Since IP time is also PIC time, you don't have to worry about having "more IP time than PIC time".

Are you the Zac at RND?

Yep, still at RND. Thanks for the words.

Zac

I dare say most (if not all) respectable airlines--major and regional--are probably more familiar with military flight records than you are. They see, say, 900 hrs of T-38/T-6/T-1 IP time and they know some small subset of that is flying with another IP who may or may not have been the "official" aircraft commander.

Dont sweat it. Just be able to explain how you calculated your numbers, and dont give them even the slightest illusion that you are trying to pad things. You don't need to.

Zac,

I didn't fudge a bit on my Airlineapps.com app. I made a spreadsheet that broke things out more correctly for what I had been flying (added in the .3/sortie, etc). When I went to the Delta interview I handed the board my spreadsheet and Form 5. The guy looked at the spreadsheet for two seconds, set it aside, then compared my Form 5 to my app, but spent more time on the Form 5. They know the deal with mil time and as long as that meets mins, they don't care about the rest. Just make sure you don't fudge anything on the app. Know a guy who got called in after he was hired and in training to answer questions about how/why his numbers didn't add up. He had the time, it just looked shady to them. Guess what I'm saying is, if you meet the mins and you get called, your performance during the interview is what matters. Don't inflate or try to get more credit; if they want high time guys (10k hour types) they will be called, not you and there's no amount of fudging that will get you close.

This question is for any of the mil guys who have recently been hired:

Do you recommend adding the 0.3/sortie (or whatever the airline allows in their appliation)? I have several applications in right now, but didn't add any time. Different airlines have different rules and that makes for a lot of calculations when I update applications.

Also, how often would you update your applications? Weekly, monthly, etc? Thanks...

I'll preference this with what I know my peers have done in the past since I did not fill out any airline applications, but if they DID NOT need a conversion factor to aply due to minimums then they DID NOT apply such a conversion factor.

There are numerous threads on this subject though ion APC that will not only give you more information on whther to add or not - but also a quick reference on what each airline required/allowed.

USMCFLYR

I haven't recently been hired, but have plenty of buds who have been, and have been given plenty of advice on the subject.

The prevailing answer is NO (unless you absolutely need to, for example in order to get the ATP).

Since different airlines have different conversion factors, it's best to keep your time 'raw' and do the math for each different airline you're applying to. Having an electronic logbook helps this strategy immensely.

Ultimately, all they're really interested in at your interview is your official AFORMS paperwork anyway.

Zac,

I'm prob wrong in the way I view it, but I've always considered the sorties where I was the senior IP or EP, as me being the over-arching A-Code. Mostly because I would be the one to get my junk kicked in if something went bad.

I still split the Pri & IP time, but log PIC
ex. Duration 1.8, Pri 0.9, IP 0.9, PIC 1.8.

btw, I'm at RND too.

I have a column in my log book for A-coded sorties. I count that all as PIC. IP and EP hours are logged separately.

For those in crew aircraft, when you're the EP, does your squadron make you the A-code or the AC getting the check the A-code?