This seems a bit presumptuous of you as actions taken in the Call of Duty video game does not affect actual human lives. Sure, they're not in the front lines, but who are you to say that their job isn't stressful?

Left Wing, as a currently serving combat veteran of Afghanistan/Iraq who has reluctantly pulled triggers in anger, I don't think my comment is presumptuous. I have participated in combat live and in person, not via a remote control station and TV screen. There is a HUGE difference between seeing it on a screen versus actually doing it in person. Additionally, I have friends that are currently UAV operators that were previous "real life" flyers and they will tell you the same thing. Does their job have stress, yes I'm sure it does...but it is not at the same level of those who actually leave the wire on a daily basis and get shot at. No chest thumping or bragging, just a simple fact.

I don't doubt that front line combat experience is worlds different than sitting behind a screen......never even implied otherwise. However, I stand by my statement that comparing flying RPA's in real missions that sometimes involve killing real people to a video game like Call of Duty is indeed presumptuous. We'll have to agree to disagree.

I respect your point of view and do not intend to change it. :) However, it's been argued in past studies, that there is a level of detachment that occurs between RPA operators performing missions in the box versus those actually out flying the missions i.e. Close Air Support, Foward Air Control, Attack, Medevac, CSAR, etc. Hence my crude video game comparison.

This theory has been confirmed by some friends of mine that have have crossed over from the CAF to the RPA world. These are guys that have done the "real thing" and they compare it to playing a video game versus doing it for real. In other words, they say it's a lot easier to "pull the trigger" looking through a TV screen. I can't speak for the guys that have no previous combat experience prior to going to RPA's. As you have said, we'll agree to disagree...:)

Yeah! A slingshot is a standoff weapon if the other dude only has a rock...and no slingshot.:confused:

An LGB gives you no more practical standoff than any other gravity powered weapon.

A JDAM gives you slightly more.

You are chest thumping. What does YOUR combat experiences have to do with the stresses of RPA guys? Why do you have a dog in this fight? Are you mad that the AF might actually be taking this issue seriously? Are you mad because they're not paying more attention to you? Just because you have seen the things you've seen and done the things you have, doesn't mean that it's not possible that RPA pilots and sensors might not have some stress issues with their job. I, for one, have never flown RPAs. But, maybe, just maybe, there might be some stress involved in spending 12 hours in a box, being responsible for dropping live missiles on someone, deconflicting with the guys on the ground, actually killing someone, then going home to play with the kids and sleep with the wife. All coupled with the thought that he would probably rather be doing something else and knowing he's going to do it again for the next 6 days. You think he left all those issues at work? You think it wouldn't affect him? Why so angry about this? You actually sound jealous over this. And you're not the only one. Some of these posts are just screaming out "Validate me!"

Okay, okay.... this is what you get when an F-15 pilot tries to use air-to-mud speak.

You guys know what I meant. A weapon you can deliver and be far enough away that you can't see the results first hand.

The ultimate stereotypical internet post all in one, bragging on your supposed quals and hero status and referencing "friends" as sources.

The toughest part of employing forward-firing weapons of any kind, especially in a CAS scenario, is being confident that you aren't killing the wrong people. That has been a constant in my experience and amongst all that I've flown with and respected. As a matter of fact, most I know (including me) wouldn't give it a second thought to trade an increase in personal risk for a decrease in the risk of fratricide. I have to wonder what actual weapons employing pilot would brag about "leaving the wire and getting shot at" and imply that's where the majority of a CAF pilot's stress comes from.

In the day, we used to take pride in the ability (actually the requirement) to develop global SA in our cranium based on radio calls only because the technology mandated that; nowadays it's the guy sitting in the GCS that has to maintain and utilize those skills. All of the manned assets have links and pods, etc that have eliminated that need. The guy in the GCS has to maintain SA on the stack with no TCAS or Link, maintain SA on the weather with no radar or window, and maintain SA on the ground situation with a soda-straw view and a "maybe" radio. Yeah, sounds easy to me.

BTW - who posts things like ? You said earlier that you "could play Call of Duty and get the same level combat experience that the UAV guys have seen" but I think you do play Call of Duty and post as if you're a CSAR aviator.

While I certainly respect the service of all CSAR gunner/crew chiefs (assuming AirGunner is one) and I felt more comfortable flying in combat because of them, there are distinct differences between employing a door gun and employing GBU-10s, Hellfires, etc. While the nuances .50 cal employment are worthy of discussion in their own merit, let's stick with an "apples to apples" discussion when talking about the stressors of weapons employment. The ROE of high CDE air-ground ordnance is much more strict and people get charged with crimes like manslaughter when they are mis-employed.

I note that it wasn't the article that focused on weapons employment as much as it was the expected posts in response to the article. A example quote from the article is: "The Air Force study also turned up a surprise for some top brass - the main source of stress for crews manning the Air Force's drone fleet wasn't firing Hellfire missiles or taking out targets on the battlefield. Although a small number of pilots were seen at high risk of post-traumatic stress disorder, the biggest factor wearing down drone crews were things like long hours and inadequate staffing, which have pushed the Air Force's 350-odd drone pilots and the crews supporting them to their limits. "We've kind of been in a surge mode with our remotely piloted aircraft since 2007 in terms of crew ratios that aren't as good as we would like them to be," said Lieutenant General Larry James, the Air Force's deputy chief of staff for intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance."

AirGunner, you complain about flying every day of a deployment, how about maintaining that pace for years vs months? Notice the surge mode since 2007 part? For those worried about RIF or promotion, how about no PME or release for career broadening. There's no credit for deployment, no tax-free, no post-deployment R&R, etc. No medals (again for those concerned about promotion), no padding the logbook, etc. How'd you like to look forward to YEARS of working holidays, working weekends, rotating shift work as you work around a 24-hr schedule every few months, etc. Amazingly enough, families expect to have a normal life when you're home - there are advantages to being gone when you're gone and home when you're home. Remember, for the time being at least there are plenty of RPA operators who also have plenty of actual deployment time under their belts and the majority wouldn't mind going back to the traditional deployment cycle even if it means "getting shot at". The AF (not the operators) decided that the majority of ISR and a good portion of CAS support to the ground forces would be in the form of RPA support; fortunately, many of the operators recognize that an obligation to support the warfighter with quality support outweighs the selfish "I'm too cool for RPA" attitude.

Deuce,

Contrary to your opinion, I have no dog in this fight, I am not angry at them or the Air force, nor am I jealous so don't put words in my mouth. I realize that there is some stress involved in that job, I won't deny that fact. But, the crucial difference is that you cannot compare the stress of being in the relative safety of a 1 g box to the stress of actually being in combat. It's a different kind of stress. That was my point, and only point alone. Why is it so hard for people to understand that crucial difference. This is my opinion based on my experiences and mine alone. Since when did stating an opinion become "chest thumping" to some? If you or anyone else took that opinion personally or were offended, I am truly sorry.


Finally, Deuce , I require no self validation from you or anyone else.. my record and credability speaks for itself. If you find yourself in KIKR/KABQ PM me so we can meet in person, I may just "buy" you a beer. Just because someone has a different opinion than your own doesn't give you or anyone else carte blanche to personally insult someone or attempt to make them quantify their opinion to you. References about myself were not "tooting my own horn" but rather a small attempt to establish the fact that I do have a backround to base my opinion on. I did not at anytime personally insult any individual RPA operator, I just stated a general opinion of my own and like certain body openings we all have one. This is a free country we live in last time I checked and I am entitled to have my opinion even if you happen to disagree with it.

Living in MEM, PM sent....