ATP in an Air Force sim
 

Do any of the C-17 guys know if there's a way to get your ATP in one of our sims? I've never heard of it, so I doubt it, but I figure it's worth asking. I know they do it in the C-21 sim at Simuflite, and now I'm kicking myself for never having taken advantage when I had the chance.

On a similar note, can anyone recommend a good ATP place in the pacific northwest?

I have heard of it done in certain aircraft, but not in the sim. I also doubt you will find it done in a MWS. Those I have heard doing it in an AF plane is by an FAA Flight Examiner quallified in that airfrane (ie, C-21 (leerjets), C-12 (kingair). What are the odds finding a civil equivilant to a C-17, C-5, KC-135?

To answer the second question, look up
http://www.atpflightschool.com/
You should be able to go in and in two days walk away wiht the ATP. As far as the written goes, either fire hose at ALLATPs for a whole day and take the test that day, or a much cheaper self paced route at http://www.sheppardair.com/
That's what I did - good test prep.

Slim,
I've never heard of anyone getting the ATP in a C-17 sim. I think the biggest problem is finding a "Designated Examiner" that is a C-17 guy. Perhaps, there is a Reserve guy that is a Check Airman at an airline that may be able to do it. In my civilian days, I know the FAA keeps pretty tight control over who they give Designatd Examiner authority to and what airframe they can give flight tests in. Another problem is that the simulator used to grant an ATP/Type rating must meet certian FAA requirements as far as realism. While, I've heard that ours meet all "Level D" requirments they have never been FAA certified, simply because there is no need for the AF to spend the time/money on getting them certified. My retirement plan is to get Designated Examiner quallified and give ATP checks in the sim and charge lots of money for it :)

For you second question, where in the PNW were you looking for? I assume you are a TCM guy. And what type of training so you want? If you are looking for something like a 737 Type/ATP there are two places in Seattle you can do it. PremAir, which uses Alaska Airline sims or the Boeing in-house training company called Alteon at the Renton Airport Boeing complex. Both places are on the web.

If you are just looking to get it in something like a Piper Seminole in a weekend course, the Tacoma Narrows airport has an All ATP school. I've heard mixed reviews on that one. Depending on the examiner you get he can be a real SOB. Some guys go to the Salem, Oregon All ATP, where the examiner has the reputation for being really laid back.

Don't forget that if you have the Montgomery GI Bill, flight training is covered up to 60%.

I'm going to be doing my ATP/737 type at PremAir In December, using the GI Bill there.

Hope this helps....

The Check Pilot who gave me my ATP check told me he used to give ATP's in military C-12's somewhere in California. Had an OK from the military to do it.

Wingnut-
That helps a lot, thanks. From previous posts I'm assuming you're a 10th guy - I used to fly with Tammi in Omaha, currently work with Lee Hunt at WG/SE, and have flown with quite a few 10th folks on locals. I'm pulling for you and some of the other '97 guys to get the vsp approval.

Do you know what they charge at PremAir for the ATP/737 combo? I've really only heard people talk about Higher Power for the 737 type, so I'm very curious to hear if their are reasonable alternatives to their apparent monopoly.

Get the ATP written knocked out now!
 

If you have the ATP written and take a type ride in anything you will walk away with an ATP and a type rating. Just make sure you have the written first, and it is still current (two years). From what I have seen the standards for a type rating and an ATP are the same. Spend a weekend (and a few bucks) and knock out the written now. I have seen several guys that have gotten their ATP and type at the same time in courses that I have attended, (me included). It dosen't cost more, it's just additional paper work. It makes no difference if you do it in a light twin or a B747, it will still say ATP in the end.

SlimJim,

Yep, on the 10th. I was a C-21 guy too...ADW.

I think PremAir is around 6K. I can't remember the exact number right now. It's right in-line with all the 737 sim places. They all charge about the same. Higher Power does have the obvious in with Southwest, but PremAir basically has the same ins at Alaska. Southwest has even been coming up to SEA to the PremAir classes to "steal" people out from Alaska's nose, from what I've heard. I chose PremAir for the Alaska conection and the fact that I can sleep in my own bed at night. I don't need to pay for a hotel on top of the type rating.

No ATP in the C-17 sim, sorry.

if youre near a kc10 base try to see if you can weasel your way in to one of those sims and get your atp that way. ive heard its been done...

You MUST make sure the sims are level D CERTIFIED by the FAA, not just up to Level D standards.
This happened in an Army simulator. A DE was giving RW ATP rides in the sim since it was a level D type of sim. The FSDO found out, revoked the DEs status, and revoked all the ATPs issued by him in the sim. It was ugly.

I heard that they are kept certified because they actually come in and do checks on them and its a really big deal, enough to stress all the sim guys out. side note, the kc-10 sims at mcguire are old DC-10-30 sims from American Airlines

No ATP's in the KC-10
 

The KC-10 sims are not certified by the FAA to level D standards so there are no ATP rides in the sim. The regs do allow an FAA examiner on aircraft for the purpose of a type ride but in the -10 there are no abnormal situations practiced in the airplane which equates to no ATP rides in the jet.:(

What do you mean "no abnormal situations practiced in the airplane"? you don't practice emergencies (engine failures, manual gear/flaps, etc.) in the airplane? For us in the -135 that's all we do in the pattern.

AMC is very inconsistant about what it will allow to be done in it's airplanes. As a former C-21 guy, we used to practice engine out (Idle) approaches and abnormal flap settings all the time. We had to. We only went to the sim in Dallas once a year, so the only way for us to train was to actually do the simulated emergencies in the aircraft. Fast forward to the C-17...Like the KC-10 community we don't do anything that resembles an emergency/abnormal in the actual airplane, but we have quaterly 2 day sim training. I'm not sure why the difference in the KC-135.