Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Career Builder > Military
HBC AT-6 not good enough for Air Force >

HBC AT-6 not good enough for Air Force

Notices
Military Military Aviation

HBC AT-6 not good enough for Air Force

Old 02-11-2012, 03:18 AM
  #1  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Seat 1 A
Posts: 195
Default HBC AT-6 not good enough for Air Force

Could someone please explain to me how something like this happens. It appears the AT-6 is a superior aircraft and it's made in USA.

Hawker Beechcraft protests trainer contract
Hoof Hearted is offline  
Old 02-11-2012, 04:34 AM
  #2  
Prime Minister/Moderator
 
rickair7777's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,102
Default

It probably came down to cost, not superiority.

Also it would be illegal for the executive branch to inject itself into a competition mid-stream. Maybe you could write the RFP to require that all or some of the work is done in the US, but of course there would be tit-for-tat repercussions overseas.
rickair7777 is offline  
Old 02-11-2012, 08:25 AM
  #3  
Moderator
 
Cubdriver's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: ATP, CFI etc.
Posts: 6,056
Default

I agree it is probably not the airplane, it's probably worries about HBC becoming insolvent and folding. I spent a little time working there, and I sure did not get warm happies about their long term longevity. HBC is currently restructuring/ headed for bankruptcy. They have been bleeding red constantly since 2008. Embraer is absolutely killing them in their market segment.
Cubdriver is offline  
Old 02-11-2012, 11:17 AM
  #4  
Custom User Title
 
AZFlyer's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,268
Default

Embraer promotional materials also like to tell you that it is because their Super Tucano is a battle proven airframe and that the AT-6 s not.

Aren't the USAF Super Tucano's going to be built in Florida?
AZFlyer is offline  
Old 02-11-2012, 04:46 PM
  #5  
Gets Weekends Off
 
USMCFLYR's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,835
Default

Originally Posted by AZFlyer View Post
Embraer promotional materials also like to tell you that it is because their Super Tucano is a battle proven airframe and that the AT-6 s not.

Aren't the USAF Super Tucano's going to be built in Florida?
Well.....that much is true.
The T-6 can point to being a proven training aircraft, just as the Super Tucano can with many services around the world. Since they competed against each other for the JPATS contract and the T-6 won that contract. maybe they ought to focus their efforts on advertising its' strengths since the reports are saying that the AT-6 failed to meet some expectations.

The promotional material shows that much of the production line and other parts of the aircraft (like the avionics and the weapons/sensor packages are made in America. SNC has been around for awhile and has fingers in many different DoD contracts ongoing.

USMCFLYR
USMCFLYR is offline  
Old 02-11-2012, 04:58 PM
  #6  
Moderate Moderator
 
UAL T38 Phlyer's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Curator at Static Display
Posts: 5,681
Default Ground Clearance

I read many months ago (so I can't remember the source) that one of the issues for the AT-6 was ground-clearance of weapons. The wing is relatively low (short struts), and it gave limited ground clearance for some of the weapons they planned to hang on it.

It may have also been a problem for the jammers (Air Force slang term for the self-propelled weapons-loading-tugs) to get under the wings. And I think they would want universal support equipment (ie, a jammer that worked on anything) to minimize the number of C-17 flights it takes to get the Ground Troops set-up in a combat location.
UAL T38 Phlyer is offline  
Old 02-11-2012, 10:49 PM
  #7  
Gets Weekends Off
 
CAFB 04-12's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Various
Posts: 428
Default

Originally Posted by Hoof Hearted View Post
Could someone please explain to me how something like this happens. It appears the AT-6 is a superior aircraft and it's made in USA.

Hawker Beechcraft protests trainer contract
Clearly you have much to learn about the Air Force aquisitions process. The process *always* begins with an insane contract award, followed by 5 years of protests, followed by a reversal of the contract.

It's how we get things done in Big Blue.
CAFB 04-12 is offline  
Old 02-12-2012, 04:50 AM
  #8  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Seat 1 A
Posts: 195
Default

That's a good one... But I thought it may be in response to HBC's CEO talking bad about Obama's administration spending or the pending F-18 contract to Brazil.... Oh well, I'd like to see the US maintain those jobs and keep building aircraft in the US. I hope that's just not wishful thinking or being naive
Hoof Hearted is offline  
Old 02-12-2012, 05:52 AM
  #9  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: Challenger 300/350 FO
Posts: 121
Default

When I worked at HQ ACC Weapons & Tactics we worked hard to kill this abortion. Of course, our protestations fell on deaf ears. Case of simply buying the cheapest possible attack aircraft we could find vs. one that actually handles the mission and can bring the pilot home. Another sad case of letting the budget drive the equipment and tactics instead of the other way around, and senior leadership ignoring the seasoned advice of their best tacticians. I'd hate to find out MY son got tapped to fly one of these. It's another A-37. And we were smart enough to ditch those ourselves way back when and give them all to the Banana Republics.
thurberm is offline  
Old 02-12-2012, 06:59 AM
  #10  
Working weekends
 
satpak77's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: Left Seat
Posts: 2,384
Default

Originally Posted by Cubdriver View Post
I agree it is probably not the airplane, it's probably worries about HBC becoming insolvent and folding. I spent a little time working there, and I sure did not get warm happies about their long term longevity. HBC is currently restructuring/ headed for bankruptcy. They have been bleeding red constantly since 2008. Embraer is absolutely killing them in their market segment.
Me wonders how this is possible with all the MC-12 backlogged orders, and civilian King Air sales. Granted the Premier is not selling as expected.

Please shed more light on this !
satpak77 is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Boeing 777-300
Flight Schools and Training
67
12-22-2021 05:46 AM
Riddler
Military
959
08-04-2010 09:17 PM
DWN3GRN
Hangar Talk
15
10-14-2008 03:32 PM
Herc130AV8R
Military
25
03-22-2008 05:22 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices