Saluting?
 

I'm staying at a hotel near my Guard base for annual training days. There are a bunch of CAP-ers staying at the same hotel. Based on prior experience with CAP folk, I have a feeling they will expect me to salute them, but I do not think I can or have to. Hopefully I can just avoid that situation.


For those not familiar, almost any adult in CAP can wear commissioned officer insignia (long story short).

I wouldn't, just like you wouldn't salute a police chief wearing stars of a general or the airport customs people rocking colonel shoulderboards.

When I was enlisted in the army, they taught you pretty heavily who to salute (in the other armed forces), and it didn't include CAP. They aren't real officers. They aren't warrant officers. Next thing we could be saluting boy-scouts.

You do not salute them. Even the dude wearing the purple epaulets with eagles.
They are supposed to salute you. Returning that salute is your call.

I know...stupid question for sure. I just figured things could turn into a p!ssing match, and next thing I know, someone who happens to know the commander is sending them a nasty gram about me.

When I was active duty in the military and we had "cadets" there for their OJT once, we were told to salute them (enlisted ranks), but no one did. The day a sergeant-major salutes a cadet will be the day I suppose. I see the CAP as something that isn't even at the level of a cadet going through training to be an officer. CAP are not commissioned officers. That's an easy line to draw. If you want to have fun, when you see them move your hand up to scratch your nose.

I don't blame anyone for giving me the Tool of the day award for the original question. I was 99.9% sure of what was up, but I figured I'd elicit some opinions. Really the only thing that caused any doubt at all was the "official auxiliary of the USAF" thing, which some members have not hesitated to inform me of. I should have asked the question more along the lines of how to handle myself in case some guy does get all ticked off.

Not that all CAP folks are bad, but I do know both personally, and second hand of some CAP folks who see themselves as being officers and don't take kindly to those who question the validity of their poisiton. Some had *allegedly* parents in high enough places in the community to cause some headaches....anyways, I pulled up to the hotel tonight, saw all the CAPers and figured, "Heeere we go!". :rolleyes: Fortunately I was in my civvies at the time.

I won't give you the TOTD, but I will give you....



http://vglounge.com/wp-content/uploa...04/cmonson.gif

Sigh. As a CAP member myself, it only takes a few bad apples to ruin it for all.

No you don't have to salute CAP members. CAP members in USAF style uniforms (BDU or Blues) are to salute active duty officers and warrants. If rendered the salute, I hope you would return it, just as you would for an officer junior to yourself.

In response to some other comments and thoughts (I've heard them all)... Yes- in CAP it's easy to earn lower officer grades. You can be promoted to LT for anything and Captain for a good number of items, including having certain pilot ratings like a CFI or being a licensed educator. Major and higher you actually have to complete certain levels of leadership training or have held equivalent rank in the military. There are lots of LtCol types in CAP, often because they held those grades in the military.

The rank of Col denotes that the person has served or is currently a wing commander or higher. The rank of General denotes the person has served as or is currently the national vice commander (2 star) or commander (3 star).

Say what you will about CAP'ers, but in my opinion it does have some great aspects, particularly the Cadet Program. I've been able to mentor and teach some incredible kids, two of whom have gone on to graduate from a service academy. One of my former cadets was decorated for his service in Afghanistan.

No, you don't need to salute them.
OTOH, these are the people DOD called to help save lives during Hurricane Katrina when I was invloved in the DOD side of business. Why?
Saved DOD resources (Military Helicopters costing us $4500/hr and specialised P-3's that cost over $11,000/hr. We paid CAP about $140/hr and saved the DOD folks and taxpayers enormous dollars on tapping DOD resources) The CAP crews were all volunteers and paid out of pocket to help fellow Americans and save us (DOD and taxpayers) enormous resources.

No, you don't need to salute them, but the recruiters love to visit the cadets these "any adult" lead. Many become USAF/Navy/Marine/Army officers. Even more enlist. Perhaps your the model from afar that helps the overall recruiting effort by showing these "adults" and cadets" who often aspire to be like you a measure of respect.
YMMV
SD

Refresher
 

Ditto on the high percentage of quality kids (future Service members).

Watching high school kids strive to better themselves instead of play Call Of Duty was inspiring for me and gave me some hope for the future.

If I ever have the time, that is one avenue I will take to give back to the cause and help young ones realize what opportunities are in front of them.

There quite a few current and former military folks involved with the intent to 'give back'.

Of course the non-sense does ensue from time to time...

Shame.

Haha, yeah I don't blame you. The original post was indeed made in haste. My real concern was if I politely, but firmly needed to tell someone to pound sand, how should that be done without getting escalating the situation..and/or what reference could I give a reg Nazi to shut them up in a hurry? As I said, I have first hand experience with the CAP, and like any group some are chill and some have some have an alter ego that comes out wih the uniform on....I don't wanna have to deal with disgruntled person calling someone in my chain of command. Small-ish town and all, everyone seems to know everyone.

If it really came down to some sort of confrontation, I don't think you could go wrong with "With all due respect, check the regulations and have a nice day."

The original question is legit, but to go further than just say "no" is making much ado about nothing. In all my time in the AF, I've never known a CAP member to expect a salute much less question a military member if one wasn't received. To the contrary, I am pretty sure "impersonating a military officer" on a military establishment would not end well for a CAP member and they all know that.

Most CAP members are just happy to talk to military members.

Block 30, at my old base we had CAP members, both cadet and senior, visit us all the time. Never, have I seen any of the senior members...even those who are retired officers demand a salute from any military member. In the highly unlikely event that kind of situation should transpire kindly remind them that AFI 10-2701, Organization and Function of the Civil Air Patrol, states the folloiwng regarding their percieved rank status as CAP members (I've underlined the important parts) :

1.3. Status of CAP Personnel. CAP is not a military service and its members are not subject to the UCMJ. CAP members voluntarily perform Air Force-assigned missions. CAP membership does not confer upon an individual any of the rights, privileges, prerogatives or benefits of military personnel, active,reserve, or retired. While CAP is not a military service, it uses an Air Force-style grade structure and its members may wear Air Force-style uniforms when authorized. Air Force protocol requirements do not apply to CAP members.

1.3.1. CAP Grade. CAP uses military style grade for its membership at the discretion and approval of the Air Force. CAP officer or noncommissioned officer grade does not confer commissioned or noncommissioned officer status. CAP personnel have no authority over members of the armed forces.
CAP members who are active, reserve, and retired members of the armed forces will be treated according to their CAP status when acting in a CAP capacity. The Air Force has authority over the CAP grade structure.