Flamer

I reccommend you stay RegAF. That type of mentality should get you some of the shiniest rank for sale at the uniform replacement store.

Hilltopper89

Too late. Thanks though for the personal attack. Much appreciated.

webecheck

Yeah you gotta be careful here. Steer too much from the typical AD bashing and you'll have a bunch of peeps jumping your back....of course this is an airline pilot forum, which lends itself to those seeking refuge from the pain...

Hilltopper89

Not intending to tick people off. I have bashed AD a lot in this thread and this from someone who stayed 20 years and not a day longer. My point was that I see it as a possibility and something surely considered to fix the problem. It is an awful idea. Alas, it's an Internet forum which doesn't lend itself to knowing people. I can assure you that I was polar opposite of the issues with crappy leadership at the SQ and higher levels.

Back (close) to topic: the only plausible solution which has been kicked around is to allow folks to fly out a career knowing they'll never progress past O5. I don't see how this could happen though with AFPC seeing all these juicy eligible bodies to fill bad deals. It is inevitable that needs of the AF would cause them to renege on any supposed good deal like that. As a guy who commissioned early 90s I wish i had a nickel for every time Big Blue told me one thing and did another. Those "guaranteed" pilot slots were unguaranteed 2 weeks before I started my senior year at USAFA...and that's just one example.

hindsight2020

I honestly don't know how dudes sign the AD dotted line with an honest expectation of flying for 20 years.I've said it before, treat it like the 10-year shelf life job that it is and then make an assessment of whether leaving the cockpit for the better-earning, latter 10 years is worth it to you. If it's not, then stop the belly aching and punch already. I know there's always statistical outlying self-congratulators that parade the fact they retired out of a flying gig. But to hinge your happiness for 10 years on the probability of that outcome becoming true for your personal experience is really poor planning. Thus the bellyaching over chump change 25K that they know has nothing to do with anything. It's a diversion from the real motivator: flying for 20 years. Stop that non-sense. Assume a 10 year shelf life and press as required. In that respect I do think AD guys set themselves up for disappointment and family strife.

There's always the Guard/Reserve to get some of that motivator back. You'll be doing it part-time and that may just be the best blessing in disguise for many. You could work towards a full-time job if that is still your real motivator (along with half a decade of working for 60 cents on the dollar that such a pursuit could mean for you and your family). But enough already with the flying to 20. It ain't gonna happen in aggregate.

130drvr

I can be one of the biggest bashers. I seven day opted a POS and separated at the 13 year mark. That being said, I do not begrudge the AF. They will always take care of their needs over that of the individual. That is why I left, our priorities were different.

Now where is that ignore function.......

130drvr

Ah, just like having kids, eh Hilltopper, gotta love their talk first, think later approach.

navigatro

I agree with you here. The AF just doesn't get it (or doesn't care) that many of the pilots have no interest in making general or O-6.

The AF should have a dual track system, "leadership" or "line pilot" and you commit at the O-3 level. Let the line pilots stay for 20 and retire as an O-4 or O-5.

I think the AF does not care if guys bail at 10-15 years because they escape having to pay a pension and medical for life. Some bean counter probably figured it saves the AF $5 per year to treat guys like crap and they get out.

Maybe they should bring back the warrant officer program. The AF is so stuck on their "officer is a leader first" mantra that they would never go for it.

Hate to say this, but MOST of the active duty AF O-5's I work with are douche bags, but I blame the system.

Thank goodness I am in the reserves.

C-17 Driver

I thought the below article was a good read. It may have already been mentioned on a different thread. (it was new to me though!)

50 unfilled pilot slots at the Zoo. That's just crazy. Last year, I flew with the district USAFA Liaison officer. He's a former fighter pilot and USAFA grad. He was shocked to find out after talking with a bunch of cadets the pilot track is simply not as appealing anymore. Believe it or not, many are brainwashed into thinking that RPA is the cooler way to go. They even have a Predator hanging up in Mitchell Hall (cadet dining area). There is a very limited number of pilots at USAFA and so there isn't much interaction. It's a shame.

Slight thread drift..but the article below brings it back to the topic on hand.

Link to the article below: http://www.fighterpilotuniversity.co...-fighter-pilot


The following article was forwarded to me. It was written by David Radcliffe and appeared in Janes Defense Weekly, 6 March 2013. It asks why would anyone want to become a Fighter Pilot? You know things are bad when there are 50 unfilled pilot slots from the Air Force Academy.


Who wouldn’t want to be a US Air Force fighter pilot?

The notion of being a fighter pilot has always been the stuff of childhood dreams, but within the USAF the appeal is fading, argues David Radcliffe

Who wants to be a fighter pilot? If you asked the question 20 years ago, almost everyone would raise their hand, but today this is no longer the case.

The state of the US Air Force’s (USAF’s) fighter force and the morale of its airmen and women have been in a steady spiral

of decline since Chief of Staff General Michael Moseley and Secretary of the Air Force Michael Wynne resigned at the behest of then Secretary of Defense Robert Gates in 2008.

So, who wouldn’t want to be a fighter pilot? Apparently at least 900 people as judged by the current training and retention shortage within the air force. The problem is so severe that there are currently 50 open pilot slots at the Air Force Academy and the USAF’s flying training syllabus is being cut by 18% to expedite candidates through the system. Further compounding this is the fact that just 45% of academy students are pilot qualified, down from the previous low of 70%.

While the USAF is not feeding the pipeline with enough new pilots, an even worse problem exists in that the service has fighter pilots leaving in large numbers, either exiting active- duty posts for the Air National Guard (ANG) or Reserves or just getting out completely. Many fighter pilots opt out of the cockpit role due to back-to- back operational cycles and are actually asking for a staff job to build résumés for their next career. There are currently 100 Air Mobility Command pilots in fighter staff jobs due to the shortage of qualified fighter pilots to fill these posts.

‘Pilots are getting little flying time .... This is not what they signed up for’

Indeed, more than 50% of US pilot training candidates do not want fighter assignments; they want transport or cargo assign- ments to prepare them for a career in the airlines. There is a definite shift away from anything that has long-service commit- ments, demanding training, or regular deployments. This is made even worse by the airlines facing the “most acute short-age of pilots since the 1960s”, as recently reported in the Wall Street Journal. A high-ranking friend of mine recently told me this situation is now “scary”.

That the Federal Aviation Administraion is considering a rule allowing commercial pilots at 1,500 hours flight time but military pilots at 750 hours only exacerbates the problem.

So why are trainee pilots shunning the fast jet community? The post-2008 ‘Qweep’, or career- broadening requirements, are a huge cause. This requires pilots to get their master’s degree, have community involvement, etc, on top of deployment, training, and platform-centric requirements. The USAF has even instituted the Director of Operations Screen- ing Boards and openly says that those not being promoted early are not considered for further enhancement. Thus, in the active- duty air force career broadening needs to be complete in order to compete. Those not selected are, in many cases, simply headed in the direction of the ANG or out of the active-duty air force between the 8- to 11-year mark. A friend of mine in the ANG calls active- duty career broadening the best recruiting tool he has to get pilots to join the guard, as the premium is placed on that and not how capable and proficient the pilot is.

A recent deployment had one fighter squadron augmenting another with 10 pilots. It is hard to believe that one squadron could be that many pilots short. The augmenting squadron had just returned from its own deploy- ment and one of the three pilots who spoke to me said that he is to leave as soon as possible and that the fighter community is a mess. Pilots are getting little flying time: eight to nine sorties a month, although in Europe, with poor weather and no ranges, it is down to two to three sorties with four to five simulator rides. This is not what they signed up for. This low flight time and the impacts of sequestration, which could further cut flight hours and train- ing, could put the force at risk and contribute to future incidents similar to the Aviano Air Base F-16 crash on 28 January that resulted in the death of the pilot.

So what has happened to every kid’s dream job? No matter what anyone says about the new career-broadening activities and other such ‘opportunities’, the fact is that the trend as it relates to pilot retention is headed the wrong way. Even the ‘Home Of The Fighter Pilot’ sign on the front gate at Nellis Air Force Base has been removed, damaging pilot morale even further.

The job of the fighter pilot is to defend the country, and it is not clear how that mission is being served by the current situation. As long as we have a volunteer force, the feelings of those volunteers matter. The USAF’s greatest strength is its people. Many nations have the same or newer variants of the aircraft flown by the United States, but none can come close to employing them in the same integrated manner. It is time to take care of our greatest resource and to address its con- cerns and needs.

David Radcliffe is an Air Power Advocate with the Air Force Association and a member of the Nellis Support Team: a non-profit organisation formed and organised to support Nellis and Creech Air Force Base personnel, activities and operations.

LowSlowT2

Whenever this is brought up, most folks will tell you it's called the ANG/AFR.


The RAF has a decent track system. Their entire system is based on age, not years in grade. Beyond O3, you are promoted based on a requirement and a job - in other words, you are promoted based on your job. When your three years are up, if you cannot find a job in your paygrade, you may go back to flying and take off the rank - you will wear O3, but be paid as an O4. This isn't the norm, but it happens frequently enough.

The rest of it is age based. If you haven't made O4 by the time you're age 38, you are offered a contract called Specialist Aircrew where you continue to fly as an O3, but get paid extra based on your experience. At that point, it's unlikely to get promoted, but again, it does happen. Sometimes someone will get grabbed back onto the promotion track and sometimes it's simply a 'reward' (very rare).

You can continue until age 55, I think. After that, you can go straight into the auxilliaries (reserves) and continue until 65.

Your pension is based on your number of days of service, so you are vested from day one and if you punch at any time along the way, you will receive something. There are merit, time in service, and rank based gates within the pension system as well, but these are relatively minor.

The grass, however, is not always greener. And as enticing as this sounds to your standard 'I just want to fly out my career' USAF pilot, there are pitfalls. It is very, very challenging to get rid of "dead wood" - that's probably the largest single issue I saw. There are other, less subtle challenges.

But in theory, it works. Hopefully, the right person is matched with the right job, the rank is aligned with the responsibility, and experience is recognized and rewarded.

I just don't know if it would translate to our massively larger force...