Rafale Kills F-22 ??
08-06-2013, 09:04 AM
#1
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Rafale Kills F-22 ??
On another website I'm on that is made up of mostly foreigners, this video has a lot of people talking. I was wondering if anyone could lend any credibility to it or any insight?
08-06-2013, 09:45 AM
#2
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Looks and sounds like a good training evolution.
I didn't see too many valid shot opportunities - but there were a few.
I heard a Fox-2 call but obvoiously am not familiar enough with the Rafale HUD (and there were no aural tunes that I am familiar with) to validate that shot.
In my opinion that is one BUSY HUD though! Could they fit anything else on there? I liked the 'Release Stick' comment that comes up in the middle during the fight.
I didn't see too many valid shot opportunities - but there were a few.
I heard a Fox-2 call but obvoiously am not familiar enough with the Rafale HUD (and there were no aural tunes that I am familiar with) to validate that shot.
In my opinion that is one BUSY HUD though! Could they fit anything else on there? I liked the 'Release Stick' comment that comes up in the middle during the fight.
08-06-2013, 10:18 AM
#4
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Either this dude was terrible at BFM (not likely) or he was sand bagging and/or handcuffed. The F-22 can swap ends in a second. Those tracking moments were not for lack of performance by the Raptor. Perhaps it was tanked up. One HUD clip doesn't tell the whole story.
I've been "killed" by Pakistani and French Mirages, Egyptian F-4 and F-16s, etc. "Oh yeah, you got me. Good job." Usually after they had either busted training rules and/or we were perfomance/equipment limited.
It was always fun though.
I've been "killed" by Pakistani and French Mirages, Egyptian F-4 and F-16s, etc. "Oh yeah, you got me. Good job." Usually after they had either busted training rules and/or we were perfomance/equipment limited.
It was always fun though.
08-06-2013, 10:51 AM
#5
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Yes - the training environment is not the end of the story in any air-air (or air-ground) scenario for sure. With the cost of flying those things though - it is hard for me to imagine them playing red air with some of the more restrictive capabilities often imposed on the adversaries.
08-06-2013, 01:28 PM
#6
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Looks like that was from the UAE's TLP wanna-be exercise. I spent a few months over there doing White Force/Air Boss. What a total cluster...trying to get anyone to follow the rules/cuffs was next to impossible. One ridiculous kill call after another. Guys claiming more kills than missiles carried. After a few days the American guys were just staying in their block trying not to get killed for real. The French were particularly bad because they were ****ed that the emiratis bought block 60 F-16s instead of Rafale.
08-06-2013, 01:28 PM
#7
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I remember coming out of BFM in the FTU thinking how SH I was for getting 7 Fox 2s and 3 guns tracks on a Viper. Thing is he was a training aid for my 20 hours in the Hawg. I was supposed to win. I suspect likewise here. Cuffed.
08-07-2013, 09:12 AM
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Two observations:
The merge appears to be about 2:38 into the video. After they go 1-circle, ~12 seconds later the Frog pilot has the Raptor in his hud, at approximately 3K' with 150-160 degrees of aspect. Any competent pilot in a 4th generation fighter (never mind a Raptor) should be able to avoid that outcome - that suggests 'cuffs of some sort to me.
The next 15 seconds suggest bad assessment/execution. After the second merge, the Raptor pilot seems to make a pretty big error with essentially a level reversal, across the Frog's nose resulting in the Fox-2 call (I'm assuming some kind of seriously capable HOBS heater, 'cuz that ain't no old-fashioned -9M equivalent WEZ - even then, it might be BS). Cuffs or not, you can't reverse half-a$$ and put the guy's nose back on you.
The merge appears to be about 2:38 into the video. After they go 1-circle, ~12 seconds later the Frog pilot has the Raptor in his hud, at approximately 3K' with 150-160 degrees of aspect. Any competent pilot in a 4th generation fighter (never mind a Raptor) should be able to avoid that outcome - that suggests 'cuffs of some sort to me.
The next 15 seconds suggest bad assessment/execution. After the second merge, the Raptor pilot seems to make a pretty big error with essentially a level reversal, across the Frog's nose resulting in the Fox-2 call (I'm assuming some kind of seriously capable HOBS heater, 'cuz that ain't no old-fashioned -9M equivalent WEZ - even then, it might be BS). Cuffs or not, you can't reverse half-a$$ and put the guy's nose back on you.
08-07-2013, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Adlerdriver
Two observations:
The merge appears to be about 2:38 into the video. After they go 1-circle, ~12 seconds later the Frog pilot has the Raptor in his hud, at approximately 3K' with 150-160 degrees of aspect. Any competent pilot in a 4th generation fighter (never mind a Raptor) should be able to avoid that outcome - that suggests 'cuffs of some sort to me.
The next 15 seconds suggest bad assessment/execution. After the second merge, the Raptor pilot seems to make a pretty big error with essentially a level reversal, across the Frog's nose resulting in the Fox-2 call (I'm assuming some kind of seriously capable HOBS heater, 'cuz that ain't no old-fashioned -9M equivalent WEZ - even then, it might be BS). Cuffs or not, you can't reverse half-a$$ and put the guy's nose back on you.
The merge appears to be about 2:38 into the video. After they go 1-circle, ~12 seconds later the Frog pilot has the Raptor in his hud, at approximately 3K' with 150-160 degrees of aspect. Any competent pilot in a 4th generation fighter (never mind a Raptor) should be able to avoid that outcome - that suggests 'cuffs of some sort to me.
The next 15 seconds suggest bad assessment/execution. After the second merge, the Raptor pilot seems to make a pretty big error with essentially a level reversal, across the Frog's nose resulting in the Fox-2 call (I'm assuming some kind of seriously capable HOBS heater, 'cuz that ain't no old-fashioned -9M equivalent WEZ - even then, it might be BS). Cuffs or not, you can't reverse half-a$$ and put the guy's nose back on you.
He may have just been bored or so handcuffed that it wasn't worth it, and he was more interested in getting back to the bar. Agree the reversal was a pretty egregous BFM error (my weapon is my control zone, I shall beat you to death with it), but the Raptor has the thrust and alpha to recover from even a terrible desicion in about .3 seconds.
08-07-2013, 10:00 AM
#10
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Originally Posted by Grumble
Agree the reversal was a pretty egregous BFM error (my weapon is my control zone, I shall beat you to death with it), but the Raptor has the thrust and alpha to recover from even a terrible desicion in about .3 seconds.
... I keed, I keed). That's about all the Monday morning QB stuff I can muster - nothing like having the world debrief your BFM. After 5 years flying Eagles in Europe, the only thing French I still respected was their EA/EP.
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