Air National Guard-UPT Slots
 

I have been weighing my options as far as civilian vs military route to the airlines, and after considering the huge debt and iffy job market as a beginning instructor/commercial pilot, I have decided to pursue a pilot slot in a Guard unit. I wanted to apply for the unit in Memphis, where I live, but they decided to open their board only to current unit members. So, I'm looking for other units nationwide that I can apply to. I don't have much of a preference on location (with some exceptions).

I took the AFOQT and TBAS this past spring, have a college degree, and have my PPL (working on instrument now).

Does anyone have any recommendations as far as units I should look at? I constantly keep an eye on guardreservejobs.net. I would like to fly heavy aircraft, but would look at fighters, too.

Would anyone recommend maybe signing on for a 1- or 3-year enlistment at the local unit as a loadmaster, and still applying for pilot slots? Would that give me a leg up/be worth it?

Any and all advice is appreciated.

[QUOTE=FlyingBulldog;1467891]I have been weighing my options as far as civilian vs military route to the airlines.

Join the military only if you wish to "serve." That's what you will do whether you like it or not. If your "attitude" is I'm here to prepare for an airline career, you probably won't make it to pilot training let alone through pilot training.

As a friend was told when being trained in surgery: "Keep your head where your hands are."

I'm aware that a desire to serve is of great importance when joining the military. If I wasn't prepared to serve, then I would only be looking at civilian options. I could take either path, and now I have chosen one. The challenge now is getting in.

I would apply to every unit I could stand living in for the next 5 years. Then I would think about transferring to my hometown, in your case, Memphis.

From what I've learned.......Most units want their guys to be "local".

Just don't leave a unit right after they put you through UPT and associated airframe training.....pay them back and then entertain a transfer. Who knows, you may end up enjoying your "new home". good luck.

Flying for the Guard is a great way to get experience you would otherwise not have as a civilian. As a guard pilot it's important to realize that at the end of the day it's a part time job. The last 10 years have been out of the ordinary for us Guard guys.

I would go get a line number and continue to search for a guard slot. Enlisting will help you out but it will also keep you out of the cockpit for awhile.

I think enlisting in your local unit would give you an outstanding opportunity to get a pilot slot. Especially as a loadmaster. You get the opportunity to fly with the same people that will be hiring pilots in future boards. It's not a slam dunk, but if you do a good job and people like you, it's certainly a huge plus. I think of it as a 2-3 year job interview.

On the other hand, you also have to accept the fact that you will not get hired and have to serve out your commitment as a loadmaster. Not a bad deal, but not the job you really wanted. But, it's a great way to see the world.

In short, I'd seriously consider going this route. I'd suggest you go to the unit and ask if this is a viable route. Obviously, they are keeping their pilot slots for internals so they value someone that has worked for the unit. There are other jobs in the unit as well, and many don't travel as much as a loadmaster. Administrative positions, intel, life support (AFE), etc. These positions also have exposure to the pilots. I'd recommend being a loadmaster though. Everyone will know you and I think it would give you a great shot.

Just make sure you know the age limits for pilot training. We had some older guard guys in my UPT class years ago so I know there are exceptions to the norm--know the rules and realize that waiver approval ebbs and flows based on necessity. Also consider that the environment will probably change the next few years with budget cuts and airline hiring. Impossible to predict but I know our local heavy reserve units are very concerned about manning. They are having a harder time keeping full time positions filled by quality folks as their pool of seasoned pilots/furloughees go back and/or retire. Throughout my military career I spent about $300 for testing/prep materials and got an ATP, CFII, and 2 type ratings. But I also had to spend 20 years doing what uncle sam told me to do so the desire to serve is a large part of it too.

Little off topic but quick question.

I have two UPT interviews next month 10 days apart. I would much highly prefer the unit with the later interview date for several reasons.

How do I go about playing this in the interview? I assume if I am offered the job it would be a few days after the interview?

Not always, I boarded the airline to go home knowing I was selected......

The risk with signing up as an enlisted member is that you may be stuck being a loadmaster for far longer than it would take you to become a pilot. I know a guy who went that route. He completed flight school under the GI bill while being a loadmaster in the guard and then was stuck with that job for four more years after completing school.

Is he a Pilot now tho ?

Did the unit hire many others from outside the unit while this guy was applying for the program from the inside?

Just like an airline interview...it's just business. If you get offered a job that you prefer later, as long as you haven't signed anything, you can go with the their unit. If they ask if you are applying anywhere else, be honest. If they ask if both offer a job, who will you take, say the one at which you are interviewing at the time! Just realize that if you accept one job, then jump to another one two weeks later, while they understand, you could burn that bridge a little.

This is exactly what I was planning on doing. Thanks!

I can't speak for Guard and Reserve life, where I assume units tend to be more close-knit and family like, but in the active duty world it seems like the worst things someone can do who CAN potentially be competitive for a UPT slot is enlist. Like it or not, there was, is and always will be two different worlds for officers and enlisted. I've known people who've gone every route to go in military aviation. Once you're active duty enlisted, they are not likely to ever let you become a pilot. You can become a maintenance or logistics officer or something else quite easily, but you're just not the same as someone on the outside looking in.

One is a civilian pilot applicant, the other is an enlisted dude who wishes he could be a pilot. The latter sums up a substantial portion of the United States Air Force.

Again, I don't know the guard world. I'm just offering a differential opinion as I've seen it go down.

It is different in the Guard. Each unit is different, but I haven't seen an "external" hire in our unit in 12 years.

My experience is the same.

This isn't really the case, we do see prior enlisted at UPT. Though, I don't know what the percentage is of those that actually apply from the enlisted ranks, but it does happen.

I'm actually in charge of the hiring board at our unit this year. We're interviewing next week. Just some thoughts off the top of my head. We hire both from within & off the street at the same hiring board. We go out of our way to make it as fair as possible so no one group (prior enlisted folks within the unit) have an advantage over enlisted applicants outside the unit or civilians applying with no prior military experience.
As far as applying to multiple units goes we encourage it. It shows that the applicant has the drive to really serve/fly in the military somewhere and we explain to them that the culture is different in the units throughout the country and the fit may or may not be good at one particular unit or another.
I will caution you about the way to get to the airlines comment. If discovered during the interview that that was the premise for applying to the unit then that would most likely result in non-selection. We need people willing to serve with the understanding that they may be called upon to give their life for their country. The Guard is way different then in the past and we just cannot afford to hire people whining when asked to deploy for up to six months at a time in some of the armpits of the world. I get it. I'm a major airline guy as well but still deploy when called upon without complaint. ( OK without complaining much!). Our unit's philosophy is your family comes first, civilian job comes second, and the Guard comes third UNLESS we get activated then those priorities need to change. Sorry so long winded. Hope this helps someone.

From my previous (active duty) base, I know 3 prior enlisted folks that became aviators. 2 became pilots and 1 a navigator. I also have a friend that was USAF AD enlisted that got out and got an active duty pilot slot with the Navy. It's rare, but not impossible. If you know up front that you want to be a pilot, I'd try for a better route though.

Really? We had 4 AD guys that we prior E from AD in my pilot training class. I guess I never thought it was that big of a deal. If you finish your degree, and are accepted, why would it matter? More likely the case...dudes enlist, life gets busy and either they never finish their degree, just lose interest or get comfortable with the lifestyle. I don't think it has anything to do with the ability to transition from the enlisted to officer ranks. Some of the finest officers I know are prior enlisted.

I agree with the bolded statement. But I would say that has more to do with the # of applicants, rather than the AF not wanting to make enlisted guys into pilots.

Guard guy here...Right around 50% of our pilots are prior-E (myself included), most of them from within our unit.

Having said all that. Since the OP already has a college degree, I would not recommend enlisting in the unit (unless you genuinely wish to serve...even if not as a pilot). You will just lose valuable time that could be spent applying for pilot positions. Keep applying everywhere, every board.

Keep in mind that AFRC tends to hire people off the street more readily than the Guard. Each ANG unit has its own culture and some entertain street candidates better than others. AFRC actually has a command-wide UPT board you can apply to without being sponsored by a unit, but be prepared to move because they'll assign you to one. You can also apply with a unit and have them sponsor you for an AFRC UPT slot. Good luck.

Close. I was a non-sponsored candidate to the AFRC UPT pilot board. When I got approved nobody came in with contracts and told me 'hey you're assigned to this unit, take it or leave it". The way it worked is that I kept hunting units for slots with the added blurb on my sales pitch that I was a command-sponsored candidate, meaning I was plug-n-play , meaning they could cut me OTS/UPT orders on the spot versus waiting 6 months-1 year for the board approval and all the medical testing before that.

That said, I haven't heard of non-sponsored candidates going to the AFRC board in years. I doubt they've turned that pipeline back on, but I'm far removed from that life stage so I dunno.

I am a former Navy guy, but now my kids are getting to the age of contimplating what they want to do with their life. How earlier is too earlier for a college student to start applying? My oldest is entering junior year and has expressed interest. I am just wondering when the actual application process should start. Plust, back in my day the technical majors were preferred, is that still the case?

Thanks.

He could be rushing the unit now.
Most units will allow you to apply early. One I know of requires you be within 180 days of getting your college degree.
Most will not allow you to apply with your AFOQT being done.

Great question Cats. I agree with Huggy that he could start rushing the units he is interested in now. We generally want to see guys with their degrees already completed but like Huggy inferred we'll interview guys (if competitive) without their degree finished with the guarantee they will be finished within an allocated amount of time. If they are offered a position and don't complete that requirement the offer would be rescinded. As far as type of degrees go, it really doesn't matter as long as they have/or are about to have one. We look at the whole picture when it comes to degrees. For example, a guy majoring in engineering may have a poor GPA compared to someone majoring in say business but we'll take that into account due to the difficulty of the degree program. Again, we look at the whole package.

Do you have any advice coming from a senior in highschool?

Should I enlist while earning my college degree and hope to become an officer to fly in the ANG?

Should I have any prior flight experience before applying?

bro take a look at Baseops Military Aviation Forums

I know DC is looking for 737 drivers. I think the application window closes 31 DEC. That may be something worth looking at. Also it may benefit you to talk with a reserve recruiter as they generally have an idea of who is hiring and into which airframe.

Does the type of enlistment assignment you have play a factor when offering positions within the unit?