Help a transitioning military guy!
01-10-2014, 08:32 PM
#21
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: T-38 IP
Posts: 70
Originally Posted by John Carr
Please don't take what I'm saying as rude, that's NOT my intent.
But teaching in the civ world is different than the military. It's not any more difficult, contrary. However, the students you're used to teaching are for the most part, the SAME.
They all conformed to a specific standard, singular purpose, singular goal, singular mission. They were the almost cliche "known quantity". You know pretty much EXACTLY how to transmit to them and they EXACTLY how to receive and whats expected.
Civ, not so much. You may have a retired doctor come in that's got more brains than sense that just bought a (insert expensive plane here) and wants you to teach him how to fly it. Your next student may be young guy, hard charger, a sponge capable of learning things quickly, your next student might be an Asian who's here SIMPLY to get their ratings so they can go back home and fly a 747/777, have fun with that one.
Like I said, it's NOT harder, it's just different, and could easily be labeled as backwards. Which is ACTUALLY the challenge. MOST pilots are used to increasing challenges and increasing skill levels and tasks and embrace it. The ones facing a civilian CFI are just different.
Meh, not like it matters, epic thread drift. Just do whatever you can to stay current. Come late spring/early summer the filters/restrictions are going to loosen. The mega-competitive stack that exists right now will start to thin, etc.
But teaching in the civ world is different than the military. It's not any more difficult, contrary. However, the students you're used to teaching are for the most part, the SAME.
They all conformed to a specific standard, singular purpose, singular goal, singular mission. They were the almost cliche "known quantity". You know pretty much EXACTLY how to transmit to them and they EXACTLY how to receive and whats expected.
Civ, not so much. You may have a retired doctor come in that's got more brains than sense that just bought a (insert expensive plane here) and wants you to teach him how to fly it. Your next student may be young guy, hard charger, a sponge capable of learning things quickly, your next student might be an Asian who's here SIMPLY to get their ratings so they can go back home and fly a 747/777, have fun with that one.
Like I said, it's NOT harder, it's just different, and could easily be labeled as backwards. Which is ACTUALLY the challenge. MOST pilots are used to increasing challenges and increasing skill levels and tasks and embrace it. The ones facing a civilian CFI are just different.
Meh, not like it matters, epic thread drift. Just do whatever you can to stay current. Come late spring/early summer the filters/restrictions are going to loosen. The mega-competitive stack that exists right now will start to thin, etc.
I replied to your other post about getting started. I was a CFII for four years before joining the AF. In the AF I've taught T38 UPT and PIT. There are many differences and on balance you're average civilian student will be less prepared and learn at a slower rate. Mainly because they actually have to work or go to school and are training on a part time basis, also they aren't competing for an assignment etc.
As a civilian I taught USAFA graduates Introductory Flight Screening IFS in the late 90's. I remember my first two students showed up on day one and asked what to study before their first flight . I told them to browse through the POH. The next day they showed up and had memorized the dang thing, they were more prepared than any civilian student I ever had. Mind you I didn't teach at a university or pilot mill, I'm sure there are motivated civilian students there as well.
With civilians you have to remember that your student is a customer, you have to earn their business and keep their business.
As for the flight schools request, the flying seems reasonable, the ground is reasonable if that's including brief/debriefs maybe a little high if it's no kidding ten hours of just ground school. I have about 1800 hours of dual given but haven't flown a light GA aircraft in 12 years. I would want probably 4 to 5 hours of dual and a few solo to feel comfortable teaching civilians again.
I'd get them to give you a solid job offer before agreeing to pay. Will you be able to set you pay rate and keep it all (or most of it)? If so this sounds like it could work out. If not keep looking. Also, look into their insurance policy in terms of liability coverage for you. When private pilots are killed in plane cashes their families will sue who ever has the deepest pockets, make sure it's the insurance company.
01-12-2014, 09:00 AM
#22
Gettin paid to fly
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Position: BE-350
Posts: 172
Master, RBI and John, and others,
Thanks so much for posting, I know this is just one of many forums, but I feel much more informed, from just reading these threads. Given my current situation, I think that shopping my resume to flight schools/clubs is the direction I am going to try and see what training I will have to complete on my dime to get that job. Hopefully I can find a school that will cover/pay for some of my orientation/fam flights and groundschool. I think that while on active duty still that is the best path. I would love to buy my own Cessna, but alas my bank account is not in a position to support that. After I leave AD, I will look at Regionals as a possible stepping stone if need be.
As a side note, if anyone lives in the SOCAL area I would be willing to share some flight time/costs. PM me if interested
Thanks so much for posting, I know this is just one of many forums, but I feel much more informed, from just reading these threads. Given my current situation, I think that shopping my resume to flight schools/clubs is the direction I am going to try and see what training I will have to complete on my dime to get that job. Hopefully I can find a school that will cover/pay for some of my orientation/fam flights and groundschool. I think that while on active duty still that is the best path. I would love to buy my own Cessna, but alas my bank account is not in a position to support that. After I leave AD, I will look at Regionals as a possible stepping stone if need be.
As a side note, if anyone lives in the SOCAL area I would be willing to share some flight time/costs. PM me if interested
01-21-2014, 07:40 PM
#23
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Posts: 59
Honestly, I'd say it seems like a double edged sword. I worked at a school that was shocked when I asked about them giving me an orientation flight for the local practice area. I was a 240 hr college kid with no real world flying experience. I hadn't even flow with a regular person as a private pilot.
You might simply ask if you must do the full 10 hours or if it can be done until it feels comfortable for both you and them. Be honest and tell them you have your reservations about having to cough up money for a chance to work there. You've got a lot going for you already and they have no reason to screw you. With your kind of time, I'd say a regional would be easy street.
You might simply ask if you must do the full 10 hours or if it can be done until it feels comfortable for both you and them. Be honest and tell them you have your reservations about having to cough up money for a chance to work there. You've got a lot going for you already and they have no reason to screw you. With your kind of time, I'd say a regional would be easy street.
04-03-2014, 10:17 AM
#24
On Reserve
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: T-45C Instructor Pilot
Posts: 12
Heinous, the gouge I got from a United Captain at WAI was to avoid regionals as a military guy unless you absolutely needed that extra $20k. Keep pressing the contractor jobs and CFI if you can. I did some CFI work last year and had a great time. About the same pay as a regional with a much better standard of living. You already have the turbine time and the PIC.
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