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Navy/Marine Logbooks and PIC time

Old 07-18-2017, 05:39 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Toonces View Post
I put any first pilot time after wings as PIC (in addition to solo time prior to wings). It's completely legal iaw the FARs. I also have all my aircraft commander time totaled separately, in case a specific operator asks for the Part 1 definition of PIC. Note that I mentioned wings, not NATOPS check - while getting your initial in a fleet aircraft, you are rated to fly that aircraft, hence legal to log it as Pt 61 PIC. Additionally, where the definition of whether or not an aircraft requires two pilots, I would look at Chapter 5 of a NATOPS manual for amplification. Not all missions require two rated pilots, depending on the platform.

Hell, you can practically justify every SIC hour in a military aircraft as PIC, if you use the definition regarding SIC acting as PIC under instruction. There wasn't a minute where we weren't training to one degree or another.
I stumbled on this after a google search. So forgive the thread resurrection. Being a Navy guy, it piqued my interest.

My understanding is that unless you signed the "A" sheet and, in the case of a multi piloted aircraft, are the Aircraft Commander, you may not log FAA PIC time. FAA PIC time is not the time you are physically doing the flying. Its not Navy 3710.7 "First Pilot Time".

And I heard if you try to log it that way, it will get you tossed out of an airline or any commercial pilot interview.

http://www.aptap.org/logging%20pic.pdf
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Old 07-18-2017, 06:11 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by ChuckMK23 View Post
I stumbled on this after a google search. So forgive the thread resurrection. Being a Navy guy, it piqued my interest.

My understanding is that unless you signed the "A" sheet and, in the case of a multi piloted aircraft, are the Aircraft Commander, you may not log FAA PIC time. FAA PIC time is not the time you are physically doing the flying. Its not Navy 3710.7 "First Pilot Time".

And I heard if you try to log it that way, it will get you tossed out of an airline or any commercial pilot interview.

http://www.aptap.org/logging%20pic.pdf

Thanks for the response. This is an often misunderstood topic from military pilots.

When applying to an airline or commercial flying company, you should understand what that specific company is looking for with respect to PIC time. A company can make their own definitions and many do. However, in order to log PIC time, you only need to follow the rules outlined in FAR part 1, 61, or 91. The below link is a helpful guide if you don't feel like looking up the exact language.
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...AND%20TIME.pdf

You have a couple of best practices to follow when converting military to civilian time. I would include a separate column for time where you are the designated PIC (or aircraft commander) and another column that includes all other types of PIC. While not important for many, this comes into play when applying for a new FAA certificate or completing various sections of a company's application. Your best defense is to understand why you logged what you did and the regulations under which it was logged.


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Old 07-18-2017, 05:32 PM
  #23  
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Does a student pilot sign for the T-34 or T-45 solo flights? I can't remember. I'm considering listing that as PIC time but it's not logged as A-time in the military logbook.
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Old 07-18-2017, 07:45 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by SpringLanding View Post
Does a student pilot sign for the T-34 or T-45 solo flights? I can't remember. I'm considering listing that as PIC time but it's not logged as A-time in the military logbook.
I logged that time as "solo" (not PIC) time in log10 pro. I figured I wasn't "qualified" in the aircraft yet/ no legit eval and was under a stringent heavily regulated syllabus. I did the same for C-172 solo time pre PPL check. Someone will argue I'm cheating myself out of PIC time but it's something like less than 20 hours and I'd rather be conservative than have to explain myself in an interview/ indicate that I'm trying to fluff my numbers.

Now in terms of apps, not sure where I would put that "solo" time, probably omit it if there is not a section for it and explain my reasoning in an interview rather than trying to justify that as an airline's definition of PIC time.
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Old 07-19-2017, 12:08 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by C130driver View Post
I logged that time as "solo" (not PIC) time in log10 pro. I figured I wasn't "qualified" in the aircraft yet/ no legit eval and was under a stringent heavily regulated syllabus. I did the same for C-172 solo time pre PPL check. Someone will argue I'm cheating myself out of PIC time but it's something like less than 20 hours and I'd rather be conservative than have to explain myself in an interview/ indicate that I'm trying to fluff my numbers.

Now in terms of apps, not sure where I would put that "solo" time, probably omit it if there is not a section for it and explain my reasoning in an interview rather than trying to justify that as an airline's definition of PIC time.
The check flight prior to your solo makes you qualified to sign for the aircraft and log PIC.

Solo time you would log as PIC.
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