Navy/Marine Logbooks and PIC time
 

Hey Fellow Navy/Marine Pukes!
I've search around a little bit on this topic but I still can't wrap my head around the correct answer.
I am trying to understand if "First pilot" time can be counted as PIC when you do not log "Aircraft Commander" time. For instance, on a 1 hour flight I have .5 FP, .5 CP and 0 AC can I count the .5 FP as PIC? (assuming I am rated in the aircraft of course).

I know that if the next day same flight I signed for the aircraft, I would have a 1.0 in the AC and I would log 1.0 as PIC.

Thanks!

Not to be an ass...

This has been asked a lot. Please search through the threads and read. All you seek is there.

I'll throw you this bone ... Don't count Part 61 time..

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...AND%20TIME.pdf

That being said, I did come across a place today that wants Sole Manipulator logged as PIC vice Aircraft Commander.

But yes, for most applications, only "A" time has been put down as PIC.

This is the way I did it...
A time (or I time) = PIC (even in the bunk)
Any other time at the controls = SIC
Any flight time before I was rated in an aircraft (I used my initial 3710 instrument check after winging and any initial check ride after that)= dual received

When I had a question about it, I usually went conservative. It is a lot easier to explain why you didn't log time that you deserve rather than why you did log time you didn't.

The Air Force guys have a very different way of explaining it.

Well, I did say that I "checked into it a bit"...and I did Google it, but most conversations were regarding P-3 types or AF and if they were in the cockpit...and from what I read, I still did have a question.....
but instead of answering my question that was addressed to Navy or Marines or just ignore it, you took more time to "throw me a bone." Why?

On my consolidation spreadsheet, I had two columns. One was labeled "Part 61 PIC" and the other was labeled "Military PIC". I had Marine, Air Force and civilian flying over my career. For the military stuff I put all my Aircraft commander time in the "Military PIC" column; that was cut and dry. On dual sorties where both of the guys in the cockpit were equally qualified, I put the time where I was sole manipulator of the controls into the Part 61 column.

The important (really important) part is to give the hiring department what they ask for. If they specifically say they want only the time where you were signing for the aircraft then do NOT include the part 61 time. Like the other guy mentioned earlier, most companies do NOT want part 61 time.

What he said. Don't let the Part 61 definition confuse you. Airlines want the Part 1 definition. (And just to be clear, when he says "Any other time at the controls", he means "first pilot" or "copilot".).

This article may be helpful.
http://www.aptap.org/logging%20pic.pdf

This is more or less how I did it. ^^^

If I signed for the jet, it was PIC. If it was a two seat jet (T-45, F-18B etc) and there was an IP on board, I logged it as dual received. I didn't log SIC just based on the 61 definition that guys above talked of. If you're a P-3/C-130/etc guy then it's another story.

Bottom line however you do it, be able to defend it in an interview either via FARs or guidance from the specific to the company applied to.

Only because "checked into it a bit" comes across as no effort. My answer was more along the lines of the "teach a man to fish" mentality as you will need to know the definitions in order to discuss your logbook with your potential employer. I know you would agree that referencing the FARs in the discussion would be better than referencing an APC post. So the "bone" got you the right info.

As Master pointed out, different organizations want different times but most of the ones you will be looking at only care about Part 1 PIC.

The tough part is making all your times add up. The dual received Grumble speaks about is key for guys with your background.

Sorry if I came across wrong in my earlier post. I haven't forgotten what it's like to be on your side of the fence. A year and a half ago I was scouring these boards looking for answers too.

In the E-2, T-44, SH-60 or anything else dual piloted, once NATOPS check complete, non PIC = SIC. Two pilots required per type, and as far as I am concerned, I equated a NATOPS check with a Type Rating from the standpoint of being qualified to log time.