FLY6584

Just looking for some honest no bull$hit/sugar coating feedback...

Are we talking... don't even bother it's a pipe dream, one in a million so you're saying there's a chance, or it's worth a shot at rushing/applying?

Background:

Went through UPT in FY 09 when they were handing out 2 x 38's per class. Finished number 3 in T-6's and tracked T-1's. Kept a positive attitude in T-1's and graduated number 1 and DG in my class. Chose to FAIP to the T-6 and then received a 707 platform follow-on assignment. Current VSP hopeful and looking at options for when I get out.

With the current VSP going on I know there is a ton of guys getting out and trying to get Guard/Res slots right now, but considering 11F's are not eligible for the VSP and the fact a lot of guys are and will be jumping ship from the Guard/Reserve's for the airlines I was wondering if this would be one of those times it may be possible for a guy with a heavy background to get into the fighter world. I know of one guy that flew 135's on AD and was able to get into a Viper Reserve unit during a time similar to this, but he had flown T-38's in UPT 10 years prior. I have also heard of a couple fighter units really needing some guys right now so I figured it was something worth looking into.

I do know the biggest hurdle would be passing IFF, but with a spin-up similar to what fighter bound T-6 FAIPs receive prior to IFF I feel as though it would be doable.

Hilltopper89

It happens all the time. When I was a Hawg FTU IP we had a number of Guard/Reserve guys who were heavy guys picked-up by Fighter Squadrons. With your background as a DG that would help too. Go for it.

WARich

Wouldn't not having tracked 38's be an issue?

FLY6584

I think that is the biggest issue I am facing. With that said I feel as though most T-6 FAIP's regardless of whether they tracked T-1 or T-38's are on about the same level when it comes to leading a formation, tactical formation, extended trail, etc by the end of their FAIP tour. I think it is more individual dependent. I saw some prior T-1 guys that flew better Tac Form than some T-38 guys in the T-6 and some T-38 guys that flew better Tac Form than some prior T-1 guys in the T-6.

Where I think it makes a difference is at IFF. That 38 experience 3 years prior I'm sure makes getting comfortable in the 38 again a lot easier than a guy having never flown the 38 for any extended period of time.

MooseAg03

I see where you are coming from, I was a UPT DG on the T-1 side in FY09 as well. I wanted -38s at track, but only 2 were handed out. I think I finished 6th or so out of 24 in T-6s. I think the issue you will have is what syllabus would they use to spin you up in the T-38? Having heard a little about IFF from buddies going through, it's not designed to teach anything about the -38, they expect you to be proficient at all of the basics in order to focus more on tactics and fighter mentality.

It is definitely something I'd be interested in as well, but I just don't know if it would ever happen. I think the guys Hilltopper is talking about probably went through UPT in the pre specialized days and all flew the T-38. If only there was some way for a guard/reserve unit to send you to UPT for just phase 3...

hindsight2020

I know exactly where you're coming from, but you're in the AF; we are obsessed with castes and one-drop rules. Your current thought process is predicated on a couple assumptions that are not accurate. I don't mean to be gratuitously negative but here's my observations:

As a bomber guy, I've asked that question before. Mind you, Im already a Reservist (which means when I ask I'm not saying, "yeah... as long as the AF lets me out" like you would be) and I tracked 38s as a stud.

To be honest, unless you have a legacy/networking lever with a Guard/Res unit, it's improbable they'll entertain a mid level to senior Captain and send him to IFF/B-course to be a wingman. It's all about the money and time. On top of that, in your particular case, they'd have to send you to T-38 "D course?¿" (T-38 topoff for those who've never flown a 38, common among non-fighter TPS selectees or U-2 entrants of the same background). That's mo' $$ mo' time. Another risk for them. They don't care you rocked T-6s, life ain't fair type of thing.

Do I know guys who have done it? Sure, I know one guy. 11B, fighter unit was our sister squadron and the guy was a Major. Complete layup and had there been a GAO audit somebody would have been strung by the short and curlys, but the guy was a true bro and they liked him so tadá, O-4 wingman dream come true. I'm not exactly going to hold on to that case study to call this thing a probable outcome though.

You also underestimate the number of separated 11Fs floating on the street who are otherwise not actively pursuing airline work. Let me put it to you this way: we're a trainer unit and we get 11Fs applying for TR jobs down here in District 12, and not just for 38s either. Trust me, they rather fly Vipers in their hometown unit, but no dice and they need turbine currency more than they need to fly a fighter.

Finally, recognize you'd be exclusively looking at units who are holding rated boards, not UPT boards. These don't happen very often. Sure, 100% chance of not getting it if you don't ask, but consider your perception of a "reservist 11F vacuum" to be presently colored by a rather optimism biased view of reservist manning and Active Duty separations. Reading up on the other forum, you guys are straight up frothing at the mouth so badly to get out at any cost, you're gimbal up and not checking six, to borrow some appropriately cheesy elbow-pointing figures from the fighter bobs.

Personally, I'd worry about life after VSP denial right now if I were in you guys' shoes. I can tell you we receive innumerable amount of phone calls about guys basing their interest on reserve work on the presumption they're gonna get VSPed. So far, that's all cocktails and dreams. The guys with a DOS set go to the front of the line. Until then, it's just rhetoric.

If you do have an in at a Guard unit, you're somebody's son or what have you, then disregard all I've said. Otherwise, consider the effort you're gonna put into this thing. Timing, luck, there is no justice, blah blah blah, you get the point. Not having IFF is a detraction that could be overlooked with the proper networking; not having 38s in supt though puts it deep in the personal favor front imo. Just my 11B second class citizen 0.02 pesos. Good luck to you.

MooseAg03

I've got another hypothetical that might be slightly more plausible. What if you were to be hired by a guard unit that currently flies RPAs and they happen to be blessed with actual airplanes in the future? Would those guys not of the pointy nose variety just be shown the door or would they retrain the entire unit?

I don't know if that would ever happen, but over the next decade as the F-35 comes online you never know what parts of the fleet may be transferred to the guard. It seems like quite a few units have absorbed the RPA mission to keep the doors open after the number of cockpits was reduced. I just wonder what would happen if the reverse were to take place.

crewdawg

I went through IFF and was at Luke with a guy that did this very thing. He was hired to fly Vipers, just prior to UPT his unit switched to tankers, so he tracked T-1s. As a Capt he got Viper squadron to hire him. He was sent to Randolph, for what I guess is the D-Course that HS2020 was talking about. Essentially he got ~20 sorties to learn the T-38 and then was shipped off to IFF. Big surprise, he didn't do so well in IFF. Dude was still figuring out how to land the thing and was expected to use it as a weapon. In the end he didn't make it through the B-Course and is back flying the tanker.

IT is possible but I would say you're fighting an uphill battle. With the amount of 11Fs jumping off AD right now it's even worse. Every squadron is different, some don't even want to hire an 11F from different fighters. But, all they can say is no...I would try. Goodluck!

This! We have not shortage of 11Fs swinging by the squadron wanting a job.

hawgdriver

Sorry to burst everyone's bubble but it's not going to happen. Unless the unit agreed to send you to 38's then IFF but I wouldn't hold your breath. Why would they do that for someone who didn't get a fighter/bomber out of UPT?

F15andMD11

I was just about to say I've never heard of anyone going to fighters that hasn't follow T-38s. Now I have.
Another hurdle...the centrifuge. I know what you're thinking, "what piece of cake." Pulling G's is something your body adapts to. Initially it's very tough! I had a buddy, former C-130, get a Guard fighter unit to hire him....washed out of the fuge.
Sorry to say. It's all about timing. You went through at a bad time. At least you went through. In the early 90s there were no OTS UPT slots.