SeanTheNav

Howdy all!

I'm a ~2K hr C-130 navigator, trying to figure out how I can continue to fly for a living on the outside. Airlines would great, but I'm not particular: I have tasted flight, and my have been turned skyward

The trouble is, I have only my SEL (55 hrs), and need to build hours without putting my family (homesteading wife and three young kids) on foodstamps.

Best I can come up with right now: get a desk job, earn my ME-CFII and build hours instructing while out-of-office. Not ideal because the hours would come slowly and I'd be missing the best years with my kids. I can be happy never being a rich man, but I want to enjoy my family and my flying!

1. Any better ideas?

2. Anyone been able to make the Post 9/11 GI Bill work for them? It seems very poorly suited for flight training (6 months or so of training squeezed into 3 years.

3. Any decent paying work I could do without an ATP? If I understand right it's only REQUIRED for airline pilots, but it seems to be on the requirements list for every pilot position of any type I've seen advertised.

4. Any avenues out there that would value my navigator time? I know better than to sneak it in with TT, but still feel like it should count for something!

(I spent hours searching for similar threads, and don't feel too guilty if there's a LITTLE bit of subject overlap)

PhantomPhlyer

Sean,

I faced your dilemma almost 20 years ago when I was an F-4 WSO. I had my CFI and instructed on weekends, but it was slow going and I got out of the Air Force with about 1000 hours of pilot time and 1500 hours of WSO time. I know of a few people that somehow used their WSO time to get their ATP; however, I never included my time in any of my TT. I ended up instructing more because it was the only job I could find after about 6 months of searching. I instructed full-time for about 1 1/2 years until I could get my ATP and then got on with a commuter. It was a tough row to hoe because the pay was terrible, and we didn't even have kids then. I eventually got on with a C-130 Air Guard unit and doubled my pay doing that part-time. I would encourage you to look into flying with the Guard or Reserves as a part-timer and pursuing your pilot career full-time if that's what you've got your heart set on. On the other hand, I've been furloughed 3 times and unemployed from those furloughs for over a year cumulatively, so is it really worth the uncertainty to follow that path? You can also have a pretty good life staying on active duty and flight instructing until retirement and pursuing a pilot's career then. I didn't get a decent flying job that paid good until I was 40, if you're worried that you'll be too old to get a job after retirement.

I don't know anything about the GI Bill for flight training, sorry.

An ATP is almost a prereq for about any kind of decent flying job, IMHO.

Your navigator time is worth something, in that you know how things work in the real world and how to get along with others in the cockpit. You can talk about this in interviews, but it won't help you GET an interview. Other than that, I wouldn't count on it helping you very much.

Hope this helps, good luck in your decision!

rickair7777

Not really. Right now you're a private pilot, in the same boat as anyone else just starting out in a pilot career.

I haven't paid that much attention to the evolution of the P-9/11 bill but I think they may have expanded it to cover traditional vocational flight training. The MGIB will cover vocational training, if you're eligible.

If you network around a busy GA airport you *might* luck into a turbine job with about 1000 hours. But the pay won't be good.

Not unless you want to go to the desert and fly as a nav for some contractor. The best use of your prior experience will be to stay in touch with as many of your old pilot bros as you can. Hopefully some of them will be in a position to give you a recommendation at a major airline someday.

HoursHore

Have you been medically dq'd from mil pilot. Cause a lot of reserve/ guard units will hire prior navs for upt positions.

tankerdude

I was in a similar situation about four years ago. I was an AD Nav with about 300hrs TT. I bought a little Cessna taildragger to build time and worked my butt off to get out early and get a pilot slot with the guard/reserve. long story short, got out, went to UPT, let the AF pay for my hours and types, and now I fly four engine planes for a 121 outfit and the military. hopefully you're under 30, otherwise this could take a long time and lots of money.

Gilligan13

How difficult is it to transition from wso to pilot? I'm assuming it would make you a lifer.

SeanTheNav

Thanks all for insights!

PhantomPhlyer: I definately intend to stay on (even as a nav) for a career if they'll let me. I need to be prepared though, because 30% of us (2006 year group C-130 navs) are being cut this year (down from an initial announcement of 80%). Transitioning would be much easier if I had a pension check to assist!

rickair7777: Post 9-11 MGIB will only pay for a part 141 school, and all the syllabi I've looked at take roughly 3 years to complete. I'd certainly be willing to go to the desert as a contractor pilot, and I expect my experience would be worth most to a crew platform in a combat environment. What compaines hold those contracts these days?

HoursHore: Am medically qualified, but would need waivers to be sent to UPT. If the guard is SO hungry for pilots that they would work a time-in-service/age waiver, that's be a great option for me! But I would have to leave active duty to even try for it.

tankerdude: I turn 30 this month... that complicates things slightly. Glad it worked out for you!

Gilligan13: There's a selection board every year - it shouldn't be as hard as it is. Most of my old AMC buddies got picked up for pilot training, even requiring time-in-service waivers. I moved to AFMC, though... I'm the ONLY herk nav in the whole MAJCOM, so my chain of command doesn't have the same perspective: I'm not likely to get a waiver signed by my 4-star because I'm not the #1 officer in my squadron. Meanwhile, AMC is handing waivers out to whoever wants them, because they GET it... the writing's on the wall for herk navs.

Again, thanks all - both for your comments and for listening to my woes!