Am I being selfish? Please advise
 

Greetings all,

I haven't posted in a while since I got my ppl. I hope everyone is doing well.

I just wanted to get some opinions on the following, as I really only have my family to ask in person which offer biased opinions. I'll give it to you straight:

I'm 24 years old, have a great wife, and a 2 year-old daughter. I am currently working at a very good job in IT as a developer. I make decent money, and my wife is a translator from home who supplements my income quite nicely.

My father has been working with the company that I am working at now for many many years, and now makes a great salary, however even though I actually do find interest in the work, and am rather good at it, I still have doubts about staying here forever.

My original plan when I was in college was to get my bachelors degree and then try and enter the military officer program(i wanted to fly but my color-blindness deterred me as I figured I'd never get a flying gig). I had 1 semester left to graduate after coming back from studying abroad, but things happen and I ended up becoming a father, and entered the working world rather quickly.

I plan to sooner, rather than later get my degree so I have it as a backup, but I still also am having a daily battle on when that time comes if I want to enlist and try and get into an officer program.

So my question is, is it selfish to enter the military "after" you have a family? Do people ever do this? I mean, the reason I want to join now isn't to fly, I want to dedicate some service to my country, and it always was the plan to go in.

My wife fully supports this and encourages me to work towards it, however my parents are 100% completely against it.

Any thoughts?

My parents quit making decisions for me when I turned 18.
I listened to them for advice, considered their opinions, and then made my own decisions - and lived with the consequences. My mother didn't want me to join the Marines. I'm glad I followed my own path.

Look at the military divorce rate for your answer. Your decisions no longer just affect you.

GO RESERVES or AIR GUARD.

If you choose Active Duty, expect a very difficult life for you and your family...wish I were joking.

One of the options I have also been thinking about (air guard) .

As others suggested, try the guard or reserves. If you want to go full time eventually, that will likely be an option depending on the branch.

If you are implying that miltary rates are high, I'd say anecdotally, at least in the Air Force Corps, it is one-half to one-third the national average.

I don't think you're being selfish at all! I did the same thing and joined the Air Guard when I was 25 (Now 28) with a wife, son, and one on the way. I was and still am employed at a regional and got hired on to fly C-130's which I'm doing training for right now before I head back to my unit. UPT was long but I was able to have the whole family head down with me and my wife was able to get a leave of absence from work for a year and taught off base.
The whole thing has been a great experience! Aside from being able to serve our country, it's given us different perspectives on lots of subjects and has opened tons of opportunities. I'm definitely planning on staying in as long as they'll keep me.

Let me know what other questions you've got!

Would need to see a photo of wife to provide input.

Sorry for the quote, I wanted to have it handy.

I did about half my active duty time in the Navy as an enlisted avionics technician, straight out of high school. Good training, poor money and working conditions. Treated fairly but sometimes harsh. Being enlisted means giving up some freedom and being told what to do 24/7 your first few years until you get promoted to NCO. At that point your life will improve but you are still enlisted. During my enlistment, I managed to finish 3 years of college towards a BS degree and get my tickets up through CFI at the Navy flying club. I left the Navy voluntarily as an E-6, Petty Officer First Class.

Second half of 20 years was as an Army Warrant Officer, flying Blackhawks. Best decision I could have made at the time. You are treated with respect and given freedom that you won't see as an enlisted man. Better money and quality of life for me and my family was noticeably better. Added benefit of being able to fly for a living, sort of. I retired from the Army as a Chief Warrant Officer 3 (CW3).

Whether you are enlisted or officer, the needs of the service come first. What you want is secondary, at best. Will your requests and desires be granted? Sometimes. You will typically be given a few choices and have to pick one for training and/or base assignment. Remember that I am talking about active duty here.

QOL for you and your family will vary based on whether you are at home or deployed. Financially you are stable and your income is predictable. When you are deployed, you may not see your family for a year. Plans must be made for how they will be taken care of in your absence. Benefits and services on base are adequate, but who will fix a leaking faucet? There are many things to consider when you have a family to take care of.

Having said all of that, your decision to serve your country is admirable. I wish more of our young citizens had your mindset. However, you are now in a position to comfortably take care of your family. Right now, that is your primary responsibility. You will be able to support your family as an officer, but as an enlisted man you will struggle for a few years until you can get promoted to an NCO rank (generally E-5 and higher). Without a college degree, options are limited in terms of being an officer. Without a degree, you can still be an Army Warrant Officer and fly if that's what you want.

Just remember that it's no longer just you. Your life is now dedicated to taking care of your wife and children. That's forever, by the way. If you were single, I'd say it's a no-brainer. Being a husband and father makes your decision impact them as well. You sound like you are an intelligent young man who cares for his wife and children. If I were in your shoes with no degree and a family to support, I would not consider enlistment. If you are determined to serve, decide what's more important to you: being a leader (commissioned officer), or do you want to fly? If you are more concerned with being a leader and developing your management skills, I'd say you need to get your degree first and then volunteer to be a commissioned officer (you can also be a pilot). If you just want to make the leap and are more focused on being a pilot, I'd say volunteer to be an Army Warrant Officer as an aviator. I advise against being an enlisted man in your current situation.

Whatever decision you make, be very careful when it comes time to sign the papers. Make sure you know what you are volunteering for! Also, remember that once you sign those papers, you are committed to the service. You will do what you are told, or face the consequences. There is no such thing as quitting (without severe consequences). Life gets better after training and you have learned your specialty, but you belong to Uncle Sam regardless.

Good luck.

Edit: I just remembered reading that you have color blindness. Have you determined if this will disqualify you for a flight slot in the military? You must find out where you stand with that before moving forward. Medical issues are difficult at best to overcome as a flight candidate. I'll leave those parts of my post for those who might be interested. BTW, there are some interesting IT careers in the military, both Enlisted and Officer.

Thank you very much for all of the information! I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

To clarify a couple things, I am 100% finishing my 4-year degree before anything happens. This was a "what will i do after i finish" thought process.

As far as my vision goes, I'm not sure. I was told at an early age that I am red-green colorblind. I suck at the book with the numbers, i can barely do any. But regardless of that, I ended up with a 1st-class medical during my ppl training, so I have no idea how the military check-out would work.

Well, i am not really so picky on what I want to do. At first, I wanted to fly in the military. That was my goal throughout middle-school and high school. But I gave up and got serious about getting a good financial foundation when my wife became pregnant. I want to put them first.

I'd love to fly, or it'd be an honor to become a soldier.

It sounds dumb but I grew up in the new privelaged generation, and I hate it. Day in and day out seeing social media, news, and articles outlining every petty problem in our society, taking our freedoms for granted, or confusing them with privelage. I guess it's just my opinion based off of my upbringing, but for some reason (which i fully can't put into words), it motivates me even more to join.

Is it selfish? Maybe, maybe not. It depends on how you approach it.

First off, if you want to be a military pilot and you have your degree, at least in the Navy, you apply for that, and if you don't get a pilot slot, you don't have to join. It's not like ROTC or the academy where you might end up driving a boat against your wishes. I'm not sure if they give the color blindness test at MEPS, but they do have alternatives besides the book with the numbers. I'd advise doing some more research on the color blindness tests approved and administered by the different services. That might make this question a moot point.

Secondly, if both you and your wife weigh the pros and cons and conclude that making you a military pilot/grunt/boat driver/desk jockey is the best course of action for your family... then it is most certainly not selfish. If you join without her knowing exactly what will be required of her and your family, then it is selfish.

The military can be a very good deal. It could also be a tremendous and insurmountable obstacle for your family/marriage. It depends on what you guys want out of life.

First thing is to see if you can pass the USAF or USN flight physical. If you are offered a slot at Officers Candidate School it will come with a career field attached. That is to say they cannot offer you a pilot training slot and then move you into something else without giving you the option of getting out altogether.

I joined at age 28 with a wife and first child on the way. Best thing I ever did (other than marrying said wife and having my kids).

I wouldn't worry about what your parents think. This is about your immediate family now.

If you are waiting until after you get your degree, then do NOT enlist. Apply to OTS/OCS. You have to use an officer ascension recruiter (if you go to the wrong recruiter, they will try to get you to enlist, and will tell you that it's the only way in...they are lying). If you truly don't care what job you do, you'll very likely get picked up as an officer candidate. You will have a much more comfortable life as an officer (just google military pay rates and you'll see).

If you do try for pilot (AF anyway). You will first apply for OTS with a pilot slot. they will then either hire you as a pilot candidate or offer you another job or not hire you at all. If hired as a pilot, they will send you to an AF base for a physical. This physical will be much more stringent than the standard MEPS physical that someone else mentioned. You will take the color blind test and if you fail, you can retake or take another job or walk away. Most bases are going to a new computer test and it is difficult. I've never had a problem with the book test, but had to pause a few times during this new test. If you pass that, you'll have a basic MEPS physical, go to OTS and then go to Brooks for a battery of personality and IQ tests (used for data purposes only) a heart scan, and more intensive eye exams. The latter two categories can DQ you from being a pilot. If that happens you will be reassigned another job and incur a 4 year commitment.

Eva, glad to read that you are going to finish your degree first. Do NOT enlist, as PRS said.

About flying/passing the medical. What PRS said is absolutely true. You may be able to pass an entrance physical, then DQ later after being in training. During flight training, you will take more than one physical. We called them class 1 physicals. They are very thorough. Apparently the first one is what they called a class 1A physical. It was compared to an astronaut candidate's physical. They aren't playing around, it was the most thorough physical I've ever had. While I was at Fort Rucker, we had at least three out 30 candidates fail their physical while in training and subsequently pulled from training.

If you decide to go for it, your attitude will serve you well. Our country and our military needs people just like you.

Before you do anything, read this thread:

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/mi...blindness.html

Truly selfish people do not ask themselves if they're being selfish.

When you got married, you took a step away from self, and made a commitment to someone else. Being a father requires you to be less selfish (if you're going to do it well). Military service (with the possible exception of the Air Force) requires selflessness.

Right now, there is a bit of a poisoned environment in the DoD. This administration is committed to destroying it. Manning levels will be cut drastically, while workload and mission optempo are increasing. Good people will almost certainly be leaving in droves. Still, we will need good (selfless) people to serve and to be the continuity for rebuilding when times get better (we've been through this before).

Good luck. Flying is cool, but there are a lot of other good jobs and skills you can acquire through military service. If you do go in, please remember to look out for yourself and your family. The services are expert at getting more from you than they give, so don't worry too much about them. Don't leave your wife and kid with a medal and a flag.

I agree with most of the other posters. Here are a few more random thoughts:

1. If you want to be a pilot, DO NOT accept an assignment to any other specialty. My recruiter told me that if I wanted a pilot slot to sign up for a NFO slot to enhance my chances of being accepted. I would have been accepted all right...as an NFO. NFO to Pilot transitions were few and far between in my day.

2. The military has a plethora of family support services. Your family will be well taken care of, especially since your wife has employment that is not geographic specific.

3. All that said, I heartily recommend you investigate Air National Guard units who fly the kind of planes you are most interested in. If you are accepted by that unit, you are GUARANTEED to fly that jet. No flight training grade/what pipeline is available crap shoot.

Joining the military was the best thing I ever did. It gave me the discipline I sorely lacked in my life and paved the way for my subsequent airline career.

Selfish? Not hardly. I salute you for your ambition even if it doesn't come to fruition. At least you have the gumption to consider service to your country. That puts you head and shoulders ABOVE the typical slug of your generation.

Do It! but get your degree first and enter as an Officer. I finished my first year of Law School and joined the Air Force to pursue a dream (I was single) these 2 quotes inspired me.

"You can't steal second, and keep one foot on first base"

"Most Men lead lives of quiet desperation"

I didn't want to be one of the thousands of people I meet every day who tell me how much they wanted to Fly, Join the Military etc etc but "You know I got married and kids" Now he sells insurance, mortgages, farm supplies, surgical tubing etc...Lives of quiet desperation. Shoulda coulda!
Good Luck!

In rereading the OP he states that he wants to serve perhaps regardless of whether or not he gets a pilot's slot. In that case an Air Force career in the IT field would be golden. Even after an initial commitment he could leverage his top secret clearance into any number of civilian jobs and stay in the Reserves or Air Guard. A tour as a Navigator (they shoudda kept the term) wouldn't hurt either if the color blindness would allow that career in addition to the computer career field.

Thanks guys this sure has given me a lot to think about!

As far as all the flying talk goes, I kind of figured even if I could get past my physical, it's too late? I mean, I'm 24 (and would not join until i'm 26 [I will have my degree then, and hopefully will have a much much much better financial foundation to start something new]), doesn't the military have nice fresh 18-20 year-olds to fill flight crews with?

Regardless, I still have a year or two to figure out which path would be best for myself (and also for my family). I've begun to start talking more seriously about it with my wife, and she could not be more supportive.

Once again though thanks guys. I really appreciate it. I don't have many people in the office who know the military ins/outs well, and every time I talk to a recruiter, it never goes very well either.

Flight crews or pilots/navs?
Can't speak to the Army WOs, but the others services require you to have a degree so all would be college graduates - not 18-20.
There are age limits (checks on the specifics of the program you are interested in), but I had a 29 y/o in my OCS class.

Pilots/Navs. Makes sense though. There's still a bit of hope on that side then :)

True story:

During one exercise session one of the officer candidates decided to DOR (Drop On Request).

D.I.: "Why do you want to quit, Candidate?"
Poopie: "Too old for this, Sir."
D.I.: "How old are you, Candidate?"
Poopie: "24 Sir."

D.I. looks around and says: "How many of the rest of you are over 24?"

At least 6 of us stood up.

The point is that as long as you are younger than the maximum age requirement you'll be fine.

Remember this...the program is tough and challenging, but it's designed to do two things:

1. Train the Officer Candidates who are qualified for the program to PASS the program.
2. To test your desire and dedication to complete the training.

If you want it badly enough, you won't have any trouble getting through. If you run into issues (for example, guys who couldn't swim well enough were held back until they could), the military will give you enough training until you can meet the minimum standard.

While this may seem simplistic, watch the movie "An Officer and a Gentleman" (minus the Hollywood drama) for a pretty good idea of what Navy AOCS was like back in my day.

***!? 24 too old...that's the average age of a UPT student. I turned 30 during UPT, it wasn't an issue. And if you don't care about being a pilot I think the age for OTS is 35.


You're probably talking to the wrong recruiter. I can't emphasize this enough. You need to be working with an Officer Accessions recruiter. There is typically only one Per state, or they even cover multiple state (ie Colorado, Wyoming, Nebraska). Do not waste your time with a standard recruiter, they do not give two craps that you want to be a pilot or officer. They just want to fill their quota.

Don't give up, you will be your biggest and at times only advocate in this process (different story once you're in) it's just the nature of dealing with recruiters, and med techs that could really care less about you.

Go to baseops.net and you will get all of your questions answered.

Reason I didn't start a family until I left active duty:

It's one thing to choose to sacrifice in the service of our country if it's just you and/or your spouse. You can choose to put in the hours, to be deployed, to get a 365 TDY, etc.

It's another matter entirely to make that choice when it affects your kids, when they don't have a say in the matter.

I don't recommend it.

If the school you go back to has an ROTC detachment (or more than one), that can be a great source of info for you. Even if ROTC isn't an option, they should have good info on alternate officer accession programs.

You're also making it an either/or situation, and it doesn't have to be. As others have said, you can go guard/reserve as a part timer, and keep your current job. Alternatively, if you left your job for military service, would you be able to return to it after a 4 year military stint?

If you did join, and flying wasn't an option, what do you want to do?

Intelligence or Military Police were my other two options; but come to find out you couldn't get those out of training without prior service/experience - so I'm glad I didn't have to chose another option! :)
I was going to spend a minimum of 4 years doing something though.

It is a good idea to have an idea of a variety of jobs that might interest you if you decide to pursue the military option whether flying or not.
Good luck jamesf.

Classmate in UPT had 4 or 5 kids.

Just an update on this as you gave me advice and I figure I will report back (As I know you all are dying to know).

I only had a few credits left to wrap up my 4-year degree and I just finished it. And as of now, I have decided not to join yet. Although my wife is very supportive and we have spent many days researching and trying to get an idea of what the lifestyle would be like, I needed a bit more time to wrap my head around everything.

I had a few people in my life in the air patrol as well as a former coast-guard member tell me I'd hate it if I joined without a clear-cut plan of what I wanted to do if being a pilot didn't work out.

Search and rescue (Just being in the unit, not a pilot) is another one of the areas that came to mind as something I would love to do as I am exposed to a bit of that culture in CAP.

Anyways, that is the track that I am currently looking into, and I once again thank you for all of your advice as you guys always motivate me :).


P.S. I know the op is jamesf but somehow I ended up with 2 accounts on here.