"Networking"
 

Hello everyone, I'm new to the forum and I thought I'd introduce myself by asking a couple questions. My apologies if I should have found these in some other thread because they've already been discussed. I'm a 130 guy a few years from retirement but I thought I'd start my research now so I don't end up crunched when the time comes.
1) This "networking" thing is probably the most foreign concept to me that I know I'm going to have to get the hang of. How/when/who did you get started with this when it was your time to start looking at the transition to the civilian world?
2) If there is anyone here that isn't flying for a Major, I'd like to know how the life compares to military life (time on the road, hours, fulfillment). I'm not exactly keen on flying jumbos across the continent but I think the "lighter" side making enough to supplement my retirement is where I want to be. Please forgive my ignorance if that is a stupid statement. I know people work very hard in the smaller airplanes and I mean no offense.
3) I'll take any advice anyone has on this one... At the end of the day, when I'm done with the military, the most precious thing I want to have is time. Money is a wonderful thing but time with my wife, a couple years with my kids, and picking up a hobby or two is what matters to me as I look forward. Can I get a job flying professionally, other than local FBO CFI guy, where I can make a modest salary and have time on my hands? What job is that, and how do I get it?
Thanks a lot to all of you. I've read through a lot of these before I signed up and there is a ton of great information here. It's good to know at least when I retire that I will still belong to an aviation family of sorts. I like how helpful people are in this community.

Depending where you are professionally, you may have options although most will not offer the part-time option. If you've been flying for a while, you should be in a place to skip regional flying and go straight to the majors, although again, it's a full-time job and won't offer you the time off you want or the ability to live where you want (without commuting).

Corporate tend to fly fewer hours per year, but you'll generally have less schedule flexibility (when the rich guy want to travel it's on his schedule not yours).


What kind of 130 squadron are you flying in that doesn't have gouge! :)

Thanks
 

I'd prefer to simply say it isn't a regular 130 unit. Not a lot of people in my unit and a lot of them aren't interested in civilian flying.
Regarding experience, I'm coming up on 4K hours, and I have every qualification/certification my command tracks... which is fairly extensive given our mission set.
I appreciate the ideas. As I said, I'm just kind of shopping around to see what people out there are actually doing and how much they like it.
It may be a pipe dream but I'd like to hear from people out there that get more satisfaction from what they do than how much they make.
I've never worked a day in my life and I don't intend to start after I retire!:D

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/mi...11-update.html

If the term "networking" seems ambiguous, think of it like this;

It's NOT the hipster/silicon valley attending a "networking" event type thing where everyone is acting phony or trying to be somebody they are not. At least NEVER was for me.

It's simply staying in touch with all the GREAT people you've met along the way that have moved on to other things. You know, staying friends, etc.

Welcome, I'm pretty new to the forums also. I'm slicks on the reserve side at Peterson; we probably know a few of the same people. I was SkyWest for four years and start class tomorrow at United. I hear you on the time at home with family front.

PM me if you'd like a perspective on the regional lifestyle, I had it pretty good. I can't speak to the majors yet.

"Networking" began when you were a butter bar. Get in touch with your old squadron bubbas that are now doing what you wish to do.

Getting hired by an airline is different, but definitely worth it. As has been said, networking is nothing more than tracking down old squadron mates, UPT IPs, etc, via LinkedIn, fb, or email. Ask them what it is like, and when the time comes, you can ask for a Letter of Recommendation.

As far as what it's like, I am a retired fighter pilot and fly for Alaska. Many want to fly a big airplane internationally, but I have no desire to do that, so this job fits me perfectly. I have averaged 7 nights per month not in my own bed, working 15 days a month or so. But that is unique to being based in ANC for Alaska. For May, I will only be gone for 5 nights, with 78 hours of pay. All in all, this is a great retirement job--but I would not have wanted to do it for 30 years.

My 2 cents...I've been at a legacy 2 years and I have 18 days off this month. Some months I have more (vacation months). It's certainly easy to bid a low credit flying line and get max days off. That's what I do. I'm still getting 75 hrs of pay with that schedule with the ability to easily pick up more if I need the money.

I have plenty of time to be with my family. 30 days would be perfect but impossible unless you win the lottery.

FWIW, I found old squadron mates, some of whom I had not spoken to in 15+ years, to be incredibly gracious about info and a letter of recommendation. I also was able to find a lot of folks I didn't realize were hired somewhere. Huge resource.

On one in particular, we had maybe 3 months of overlap before he retired, but he wrote a very kind recommendation, as if he had sought me out for help!

Everyone hired in the industry knows how the game is played. I didn't have one email go unanswered. Good luck!

Galt,

This quote is important because Cricket is based where he lives. The key to maximizing your time at home is find an airline/corporate/135 gig based where you want to live. Or find a job like NetJets that does home basing...i.e. they buy you an airline ticket from your home to the plane then buy you a ticket home at the end of your rotation. Its the commuting that can take a huge chunk out of you "at home" time.

Amen! You'd be surprised how many people you've flown with in the military are where you want to be. Some may even be Chief Pilots/Check Airmen. Their recommendations will carry even more weight.

Don't limit your options to just the airlines, either. There are lots of great flying jobs out there. They may not pay as much, but after a full military career you're not going to be a wide body Captain making the mega bucks anyway. Assume the top of the ladder for you will be narrow body Captain and compare your other options with that level.

Best of luck in your 2nd career!

Packrat, I'm curious about this statement. Will you please elaborate? Thanks! - YODA

Certainly. Lets imagine the average Joe goes into the military at 23-24. If he only serves 20 years he's coming out at 43-44. That gives him 22-23 years of airline service IF he gets hired right out of the box.

In the mean time, he's got guys getting on with his major in their late 20's early 30's. Those guys will have 10 to 15 years seniority over him when he finally does get hired.

Who's going to be sitting in the LIMITED number of widebody seats as Mr. Military gets to the end of his career? You got it, the young guys who went the civilian route.

The best a military retiree can hope for is a narrow body Captain seat with little or no commuting. Not that there's anything wrong with that, its just a full career miltary retiree is fooling himself if he imagines he'll ever see the left seat of a 777.

FedEx has a higher number of wide bodies as percentage than most airlines, and we have some 20 year AD guys who are WB captains. Most, however, were hired in the 96-98 boom. Most of our guys hired after 2000 cannot hold a WB, although I know a couple 01 hires who managed to get the MD11 for a spell. However, most were excessed back off it last year. There ARE a lot of NB captains however. The FDA in Hong Kong may have a few captains that made 20 on AD, but again...most of those were hired in mid 90s. Perhaps the surge at the legacies right now is large enough to offer similar opportunities for those late to the party, but I don't know for sure.

Packrat's point is interesting, and I realize most of the O-5/O-6s I met in the left seat of the -11 the last few years got there via an ANG/Reserves. They got out at the 7-12 year point and then continued.

All that aside, 20 years is a great life and choice for many. I bailed, and I was very happy with my decision, but my variables (family, location, job offer, and side business) worked well for me. I just finished my WB type rating last week and will be going to the line Jun-July after IOE. Hire to WB captain time was 13 years, six months. I would say that for guys hired at my company now that number might hold, but it won't drop much and might even get longer. That said, a NB captain spot after a full career and an AD retirement check isn't a bad life either, and I know many senior WB FOs and Junior NB captains who are in this niche.

Me--I knew myself, and knew I wanted to fly fighters, and big jets around the globe one day. I got very, very lucky and have done both. I have no regrets, but none of my retired bubbas complain much either...its all about where you feel most comfortable.

Man, between a military retirement and being a narrow body CA or a senior widebody FO it sounds like that pauper's existence will suck :eek:

The agony, the horror........

Not sure how many military guys, who have been deployed numerous times since 2001, are going to "complain" about narrow body Captain and little commuting. Nor whether he "missed" the chance at 777 Captain. These are retired "Captains" on F-16s, C-17's, etc etc, with military retirement and medical benefits package.

Doubt they are losing sleep over this or groveling to be left seat of a triple 7 or "widebody seats"

the bigger the plane, the bigger the suitcase

Before the latest hiring spree 75-80% of the Big 3's pilots will be retired in 15 yrs(2030). Add in five more years (2035) and it probably hits 90%. The retirees that got hired early in the wave will probably be large w/b CA's when the retire.

Spoke with a 44 yr old late 2014 newhire last week. His seniority number projects about 3 years as a 330/350/777/787 CA (junior base).

Ask any UAL pilot how 20 year new hire "projections" work out.

I'd have to look at the projection again, but early last year UAL started losing on average 1 pilot EVERY 18 HOURS. So yeah, ask them.

I meant ask the guys hired in the '90s who were going to be 737 Captains in two years and ended up with two furloughs. Ask those guys how valid their projections were.

Smart airline pilots never project more than the next couple bid periods.

Substitute ANY airline for UAL.

But yes,, I'd agree with your point.

Manage expectations accordingly.

What airline was that ?

United in the 1990-1992 time frame. Guys were quitting Alaska to get the quick UAL upgrade.

I suspected this is what you meant. It's just a matter of gaining enough seniority (or not) prior to timing out at retirement. I appreciate the response. Hope to see you guys out there in a couple of years after I get that mil retirement. - YODA

Stayed in 20+ because they let me keep flying, promoted me, and was having fun. Different environment than now in almost every way. Kept my Rolodex updated then put it all in my cell phone. Whether you are gonna sell Spacely Sprockets to your old bros or sell yourself to them for a rec, you need to network while you are in not while are trying to avoid getting sweet and sour sauce on your dark blue Joseph A Bank suit while talking to a 25 year old HR wannabe.

Airline flying is about lifestyle. Combining retirement with airline pay balances the math. No complaints about missing out on WB captain. Will just have to suck it up.

Pretty much. Or just my previous post, be a normal socially adjusted human being and stay friends with the people you've met along the way.

That was the whole point.

Thank you
 

Thank you all for your responses and your advice. I really don't know if I want to go fly an airliner or if I want to find something else to do with airplanes. In any case I'm sure the advice you've provided will be very helpful.
I'm sure I'll be back with more questions soon.

Ask away! I made the transition from the J-Model to an Airbus two years ago and don't regret it at all. The airline life is pretty laid back. The difference is pretty substantial though, the excitement in the airline life is not what it is in the military. Obviously.

But, I've done that excitement, now flying is a job. And I love going to work.

My schedule is usually 16-18 days off a month, I fly pretty much where and when I want. I'm in the top 1/3 of the base seniority list, so I'm getting one of my first ten picks for flying lines. Every other month I work in the training department, teaching new hires in the Airbus simulator, so that quenches my instruction addiction.

The work is laid back, the quality of life is great and the retirement check offsets the poor first year pay.

Let us know if you have any more questions.

I’d just add consider attending a future Women in Aviation conference (open to dudes as well). It’ll cost some bank to attend but I’d say it’s worth it if you can. I attended this year (after just recently retiring from active duty) with the main goal of getting to meet with a few of the airline recruiters (which I did and that was a good experience in itself).

But what I didn’t expect / know about was all the other events going on. There were all kinds of side lectures/seminars regarding all facets of aviation. For example, I jumped in on corporate aviation lecture. One of the speakers – now a corporate Chief Pilot - was a retired F-16 guy whom spoke about how he came about choosing corporate over the legacies and why that’s worked for him, etc. All of the large carriers also gave hiring briefings which consisted of a small pitch about their airline, current happenings, what to expect as a new hire and most importantly what they look for in candidates and some gouge on the particulars of their hiring process. For me, these briefings were huge and answered a lot of my questions.

There are other aviation conferences / pilot job fairs (such as OBAP) but I haven’t attended these so can’t say if it’s the same. Best of luck!