Airline Chances With a Q-3
 

Fellas,

Just curious what my chances are when it comes to getting hired at a legacy with a Q-3 for cause in my FEF. All other check rides have been Q-1 with a downgrade or two, several with commendables. The Q-3 was for a bad decision to continue an unstable approach and a late decision to go around resulting in aircraft damage. Am I facing a tough road ahead with regard to airline hiring? Anyone in the same situation had any luck?

TIA!

Not at all dude. Plenty of guys have been hired at Legacies with Q3's on their record. The fact that aircraft damage was a result of it doesn't help and may make explaining it harder, but it shouldn't ruin your chances of getting an interview. It will be on you to take ownership and explain what you learned from it in your interview and you'll be fine.

What did you learn?
 

I have a Q-3 in my FEF and was hired by 2 airlines at the same time. Have a good story, own it, move on!

Thanks for the replies. I absolutely own it and I learned a great deal from it. The biggest of which is the fact that "get-there-itis" is very real and can happen to anyone at any given time. You have to be mentally prepared to fight it and make the right decisions. This was very difficult for me since I've always prided myself as a sound instrument pilot. Especially since I've lost 3 good buds in the F-16 under similar circumstances (RTB in IMC/CFIT).

My biggest concern is that it was a command-directed Q-3 for safety of flight and missed approach/go around. Word around the fighter community is that a Q-3, especially one for safety/flight discipline, is an airline career killer. My leadership understands that it was a momentary lapse in judgement and are continuing to upgrade me to MSN/CC and IP so I'm hoping that will help ease the airline's concern but it's on my FEF nonetheless.

On the bright side, it will ensure that I have a good TMAAT story for sure.

Thanks again!

If you REALLY learned from it you're a better pilot because of it. The school of hard knocks can suck at times, especially when you're the participant instead of reading about it.

It might be a good TMAAT - "embarrassing, humbling, and beneficial. It gave me insight into pitfalls and made me wiser, especially after losing three friends with somewhat similar circumstances. My commanders ultimately realized it was a harsh lesson learned and my career progression continued with upgrade to mission CC and IP qualifications."

It can suck telling honest stories of one's failings, especially when one has high standards/expectations. Learning is the key lesson. We all know guys who havn't learned from their previous lessons. IMO that's the guys NO ONE wants to hire.

Good luck. Be honest.

That is probably what the interviewing Capts will be interested in. And of course time and Q-1s that follow!

Scraped the boards or worse? Just curious.

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Scraped the outer edge of the left stab. They were able to repair it. Mostly just paint and bent up the outermost static wick.

Not a problem from what I've seen. You are making "career progression" which says it all. Just be able to explain the incident without making excuses and it can actually bring some life to those boring interviews.:) Life happens, right?!?!

I'd bet the Q3 will buff out, too.

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There are very few pilots that didn't have a bad ride or hiccup in their career. own it, explain what you learned from it. NBD.

Any of you guys know what airlines ask for the FEF besides Delta? Obviously, I'll have to answer yes to the question about failed check rides on all of the apps which will provoke the conversation regardless. Just curious who else asks to see the actual FEF.

I brought my whole FEF, but Southwest only asked for the summary pages for each assignment.

I have a bud who was the IP/PIC on a King Air some Iraqis effed away. Major aircraft damage, solid Q3 on record, USAF and IAF pinned entire fiasco on him, hired by DAL early in the wave.

Wow! That's encouraging. Especially Delta. I had heard that they ask for pretty much all of your mil records to include your FEF, OPRs, flying history, etc. I don't know how thoroughly they look at the details of that stuff though.

You guys get graded on your annual check ride? And get sh1t on if you bend metal?!!?!?

USN Natops is pass fail, if I gave a downgrade to everyone in the F-18 that bent metal in the sim, 50% would fail. The whole idea behind the check ride was to give compounding and complicated emergencies, to make guys work. The kind off off the wall crap that has a 1 in a billion chance of ever happening.

So the USAF has taken the zero defect expectations to the sim. That's awesome.

United didn't care to see anything other than logbooks. DAL is a special breed of hiring crazy.

AF checks are in the aircraft...not the sim. Best not bend metal.:eek:

You don't have to be on a check ride to fail a check ride (Q3 a flight). You can be on a normal flight without a check airman on board and if you bone something up or bend metal you can be given a Q3.

Naval aviation was the same way - at least as I understand it - your Q3 was along the lines of one of the possible findings of our FNAEB process that might result from bent metal from a mishap.

You are marketable. You have to tell your story. It is a mistake, but one mistake doesn't define you. Subsequent successes and upgrades paint a bigger picture of who you are.

You should be fine. Call us if you need extra help.

In case you don't know who "us" is, Albie runs Emerald Coast Interview Consulting. They are very, very good at what they do.


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Yes, we are graded. EQ, Q-1, Q-2, or Q-3. Downgrades don't matter too much depending on the type of downgrade (SA, safety, or flight discipline hurt the worst). The SEFE can also issue commendables as well.

Typically, as long as you don't screw up the CAPs (Critical Action Procedures) you won't fail the sim portion of the checkride. I've only heard of one person failing the IEPE and that was because he had screwed up his flameout landing pattern and instead of ejecting, he just laughed it off as the jet hit the ground.

My incident happened on a cross country. I messed up and fessed up. Because of the nature of the incident (in addition to bent metal) the CC opted to revoke my instrument qualification hence the CC directed Q-3. It wasn't a checkride but the end result is the same. I now have a Form 8 with a Q-3 for safety. I ended up going through a requal program which consisted of an instrument ride with an IP, an IEPE (instrument emergency procedures evaluation), and a checkride flight. Really just a standard instrument check with the additional instrument flight with an IP. I was due for my 18-month instrument check anyway so the requal program didn't hurt too bad.

Thanks for the words Albief15. Based on multiple recommendations from buds of mine, I decided long ago that I would be contacting you guys about a year from my terminal date. Should be next spring sometime.

So I've heard. Best in the biz from all accounts that I've heard.

Shlt I say makes fighter pilots cringe, and the schooling I got from ECC got me through my DAL interview. I'm living proof that they can get even the lowest common denominator through an interview. I also used their techniques to not step on it during probation. Not sure how I'm going to survive now that I'm off probation and got my opinion reissued, might need to take a refresher course :). Better yet, I should become a (highly) paid ECC consultant. Kind of like Jared for Subway. Wait, never mind.