250 hrs in type?
 

Hello all!

Im looking at getting out of the military in about a year. Im currently a helo pilot with over 1000hrs of flying under the 'ol belt. I went out and got my Comm-Inst MEL tickets with the hopes of flying the big birds in the future. I did everything in about 105 Fixed-Wing hrs.

In talking to a friend of mine, whom is doing the same thing, he had mentioned that in order for us to be marketable (regionals), we need at least 250 hrs in type. upon further examination FAR 61.159(a)(5) says, "250 hours of flight time in an airplane as pilot in command, or as second in command..."

The question is, can any of the helo men or women confirm this to be true? Do I need to shell out more money to get the 145 more FW hrs? I thought I qualified for the restricted ATP under FAR 61.160(a) because it states:

"A US Military pilot or former ... may apply for an ATP cert. concurrently with an airplane type rating with a minimum of 750hrs of total time as a pilot..."

Ive been to APTAP already, it seems like this website is a tad more popular. I appreciate any and all advice! Thank you!

Very Respectfully,

MedHawk

MedHawk,

I'm not a rotor head but I'm gonna take a stab. All the regionals care about is that you have an ATP or have the minimum requirements (if they have an AQP) to get your ATP.

Your fight is with the FAA requirements for the ATP and the way I read 61.159 (http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx...se14.2.61_1159) yes, you need 250 fixed wing hours and a whole lot more.

I'm pretty sure that 61.160 only reduces the 1500 hour requirement under 61.159 to 750 hours for military aviators. You might be better off finding a flying job that only requires a commercial certificate for a year.

To get the most correct answer, I would call your local FSDO and discuss it with them before you start making life changing decisions. That way you will know where you are and have a clear understanding of where you need to be.

Hope that helps,
Dubz

Yeah, to get your airplane ATP, or to be eligible for it as some of the regionals will hire you if you have the mins, you need the 250 airplane hours. No way around it. The restricted atp is good with 750 total, but you still need the 250 airplane pic/sic. Havent ever seen anyone get the 250 airplane waivered, although I know some who have tried.

Yeah you need the airplane time as the CFR states...no way around that. And none of your time counts towards the "250 PIC" until your private add-on was complete (or comm if you went straight to that) except solo time I think. Good thing is you only need 25 multi hours (25 can be counted from the sim in initial). At my last duty station there was a university down the road from us with a fairly large aviation program and which happened to be a yellow ribbon school. A bunch of us went there and got a bunch of flight time/ratings courtesy of the GI Bill. Several from my brigade who bailed in the last year or two are now in the regionals. Another option would be go guard/reserve fixed wing and get some more time from that. Or you could buy a cheap plane (cub, 152, rv-3/4, etc) and go fly the crap out of it for a couple months. Cubs burn 4 gph. Sell it when you're done getting your time. You and your friend can both fly it for the cost of gas and oil.

Or you could dish out the money/time/effort to get a CFI. If you are burning $ to get flight time, you could check that block and get someone else to pay for your time.

There are some jobs available for low time comm guys (specifically way low FW time) but they are harder to come by and networking seems to be the best way to get them. I have a low time friend (300 total hrs) who had an SIC citation job and now has a SIC PC12 job. There weren't a whole lot of decent FW jobs I could get with 1900 hours, 1250 helo, 500 fw, 37 multi, when I separated. No one seems to care about rw time in this world. But all the regionals would take me with atp mins.

I think you'll have more luck asking your questions over on the APTAP.org - Professionals Helping Professionals forum. It's stands for "Army Pilot To Airline Pilot" lots of guys just like you or who previously did what you are asking to do on there. Good luck...it's a pilot's market right now! Thanks for your service & I would look at getting a part time C-12 gig in the ARNG or USAR to get paid to build FWMET time, spending $, and a pension at 60.

Checkout CBP, they've moved to a dual qual hiring requirements for their non-P3 AIAs. Pay and bennies are decent. Some locations may suck, but others could be at least on par or better depending on where you've been stationed in the Army.

14 CFR 61.160(a) reduces the total time requirement for the ATP, for military aviators. Specifically, it reduces the total hours required under It does not address the airplane category rating. That is addressed by 61.159.

As a military aviator, you'll require 750 hours total time. Of those 750 hours, you'll need:
500 hours cross country
100 hours night
75 hours simulated or actual instrument

For the airplane category rating, you'll need:
250 hours in airplanes as PIC or SIC
50 hours in multi-engine airplanes if seeking an ATP in multi-engine airplanes
100 hours of cross country in airplanes
25 hours of night flight in airplanes

The 250 hours of PIC/SIC in airplanes must have been obtained after receiving FAA airplane privileges (or as a rated military pilot flying fixed wing aircraft). It need not be after the private pilot add-on, if you did one. It begins with solo; if you're soloing under an instructor endorsement in an airplane, you're able to log PIC experience in airplanes, and that time counts toward your total of 250 hours.

If you approach a FSDO (Flight Standards District Office) with your question, you'll receive an unauthoritative opinion which has no legal defensibility. At no point will you be able to say "XXX told me so" and have it mean anything, as the FAA Administrator has never authorized the FSDO-level to interpret the regulation. It's a common mistake that many make, seeking regulatory answers at the FSDO level; you might get an answer, but there is no reason to expect it to be correct, and no way to fall back on it if you're told something else elsewhere, or if you're given incorrect information.

So who at the FAA besides the administrator is allowed to interpret the regulations and give you a legal answer? Who do you call to get an answer?

You don't.

The FAA Chief Legal Counsel's office and to some lesser degree, the Regional Legal Counsel are authorized by the Administrator to interpret regulation. It takes about six months to get a reply, which is received in writing, and made public. You can search some of the interpretations at: Regulations Division ? Legal Interpretations & Chief Counsel's Opinions

There are three primary sources of insight into the regulation: Federal Register preambles in which the regulation is first announced, the regulation itself, and FAA Chief and Regional Legal Counsel Opinions & Interpretations. All are official, authoritative sources which are defensible before an administrative law judge.

What you're told at the FSDO level, even if obtained in writing, is not.

I would hope that you would agree that the FSDO answer, while it may not be perfect, would be slightly more reliable than an answer received off APC.