Originally Posted by 2loud
(Post 2010450)
This is important to note. Timing is everything. Remember the early '90s when 1/2 of the UPT grads were getting banked and the washout rates increased? We lost over 1/3 of our class and a couple of them washed out of T-38s in the last few weeks prior to graduation. Some classes washed out up to 50%-very rare but happened. Fast forward a decade...it took an act of God to wash anyone out.
I had to make the final call on whether he stayed or took a hike. It was one of the most difficult decisions of my life but I had to fail him. But still, it's a tough thing to crush someone's dream. On top of that, he puked right into his mask so I had listen to the "slurping" sound for the rest of the sortie. |
Crewdawg,
Here's a listing of my class (87-04) and a few classes prior to and after mine. Class. Entered. Attrition. Graduated 87-03. 61. 43%. 35 87-04. 52. 44%. 29 87-05. 48. 46%. 26 87-06. 61. 28%. 44 This was at Columbus AFB. Spanning a timeframe from Feb 1986 to June 1987 The numbers are slightly skewed because it doesn't account for students who washed back from another class, for Example we had 4 wash backs that graduated with my class so we actually graduated 25 out of the original 52. I know other classes had similar wash backs. The 87-06 class was an Academy class so that may explain their better performance, (Or the IP's put their hammers back in the closet for them) |
Originally Posted by crewdawg
(Post 2010487)
He mentioned that in the 80s/early 90s the AF just threw a ridiculous amount of guys into UPT and filtered them out there. Well the AF can't afford to do that these days and seems to be more stringent in UPT selects. He thought that the average UPT stud was a better candidate than that of those in the years past. His words.
Not sure how big class sizes were back then, but for reference my class only had 25 studs and 2 washed out. The reason why there aren't a whole lot of washouts as there used to is: 1) T-6s. Having the EFIS and glass cockpit makes everything easier. The scan is made simpler and big improvements on SA. The T-6 sim is also a huge improvement which keeps the cost down and enhances the learning experience. The saying was, the T-6 is easy to grasp but difficult to master while the T-37 was hard to grasp initially but easy to master. 2) Dual track. The "universal pilot" mentality disappeared since not everyone had to fly the T-38. Lets face it, very few people wash out of T-1s, if any from what I've seen. |
Ok, I deleted as much chaff as possible without intentionally changing the meaning of the people I quoted. Since the forum has spoken and I was not clear; I will own that and be as concise as possible with an explanation prior to each quote.
First our OP who wants help with a reasonable request from what everybody assumes to be an American UPT washout.
Originally Posted by Hc130
(Post 2008824)
I washed out of UPT training last year, after the Instrument phase of T-6 training.
Right Now I’m interested in civilian career, and I’m trying to get my instrument rating, (Passed the IFR written exam already) I'm in a sort of rare position here, does anyone have any ideas? What should :confused: I do Who would I reach out to?
Originally Posted by Hc130
(Post 2008861)
I forgot to mention that I was international SP, and I'm no longer in the military.
Originally Posted by MikeF16
(Post 2009673)
Why did you wash out?
Originally Posted by MikeF16
(Post 2009854)
Back to the point, I absolutely have to ask that question. It takes an act of god to wash out an international. You should see the Nigerians and arabs we stick wings on, I bet 50% are smoking holes in some shlt hole I never plan to go back to. My point; if you washed out for flying, then let me offer you some sound life advice, find another profession -- this ain't your calling.
Originally Posted by HuggyU2
(Post 2009873)
During my two tours in AETC, I recall telling number of pilots this was not like civil flying. And we had pilots come through that had Regional Airline backgrounds... and washed out. They went back to the airlines.
A guy I went to college with washed out in T-38's and is now a Captain at a large legacy airline. So now the thought pattern is that if you cannot fly in the military environment, you're unable to fly at all? Mike, I think your perspective is somewhat limited.
Originally Posted by MikeF16
(Post 2009888)
As usual, an APCer doesn't read what he's responding to and makes an off base reply. Try rereading my post, I didn't say anything you're accusing me of.
Originally Posted by HuggyU2
(Post 2010153)
Normally I would. But I think I'll pass this time.
I recall a couple of years ago when you started a few threads asking "should I retire and go to the airlines", as well as basic questions about ATPs and interviews. No one was sarcastic or rude to you, nor did they question how it was you didn't have the info you needed right in your squadron. Instead, they tried to help you. And based on my impressions (right or wrong) of you from your early posts, you had very little knowledge of GA and civil flying. As for my post, I disagree with what you wrote. If you'd like to comment, correct, or enlighten me, then please do so. I've learned plenty here and and maybe your rebuttal will give me something new to think about. But save the rudeness for your 4-ship debrief. |
Talk about thread drift......
|
My class at Columbus (77-05) started with 30, graduated every single one of that 30 a year later. At that time, it was a first. Not even one washed back into our class. We had enough strong studs to carry the few weaker ones along and cooperated intensely everyday. Even cleaning rooms.
GF |
Originally Posted by MikeF16
(Post 2010612)
Words...
Feel better? |
These are the AF's numbers through the 90s:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...E/3f7c27c4.jpg |
MikeF16,
Hard to believe that you never saw a foreign Stud wash out but I certainly don't doubt you. Reminds me of a funny story, my IP was debriefing me after a sortie and he see one of our Kuwaiti's sitting at a desk in the crew room reading something other than a T-37 related pub. He tells me that the kid was DNIF for months and only flew twice ( we were about one third of the way through Tweets at the time). He says to me, "Watch this," he then asks our DNIF friend, "Lt Al-Immaz what do you think of the program so far?" The Kid looks at him with a big smile and gives him a thumbs up and says in broken English, " Piece of Cake" He washed out along with another Kuwaiti Stud. Heard he ended up trying to fly helicopters |
I saw a couple go through CBM in 88...wasn't a shock when I was driving over their old airbases after Desert Storm. They flew well enough to get the hell out when the fighting started.
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