Turkish F-16 Shoots Down Su-24
 

Really? For this?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

I didn't see any ejections in the video. :(

Both ejected. One has been "found" dead. Of course there we're idiots at the ready to video his body while chanting Aloha snack bar.


Vladimir Putin warns Turkey there will be ?consequences? over downed Russian jet | Daily Mail Online

A video on TV shows two parachutes deployed at altitude. An ISIS commander is reporting that his "comrades" shot the crew in their parachutes, but one video supposedly shows a crewman running on the ground. Another video supposedly shows (the same?) pilot after he had been shot and killed.

Ask yourself what would Russia do?

I hope the crew can rest in peace, and I hope Vlad takes it out on as many troglodytes as he can find.

But he probably won't be messing with the Turks. If he's smart.

Did the Su-24 have a chance against an F16? Seems like pretty old equipment.

Fencer is not a fighter.

Either we need to help the Russians in this, or GTFO of the way.

Truth be told, the aircraft probably didn't matter all that much. ROE was the determining factor. But I'll bet the Russian ROE is about to change.

Couldn't agree more, what a stupid move by a member.
The big Turks have been supporting IS all along.

Was an AWACS aircraft involved controlling the F-16. If so, whose?

Couple things;

That's assuming that's the REAL/OFFICIAL radar track. Not just what's posted on the interwebz...

Also, who knows how many, and far the Russians have transgressed in the past? Maybe they've been doing it since they arrived in the Syria operation. Maybe the Turks have issued repeated warnings to stop and Mad Vlad just keeps flipping them the bird. Just because it may NOT have made the news cycle in the U.S. doesnt mean that it wasn't happening previous.

As mentioned, whatever the ROE was,
maybe the Turks simply said "enough is enough, next time just shoot them down. Doesn't matter if it's 10 miles or a 1/10 of a mile inside".

I don't have any info, don't pretend to. But basing it off of what the interwebz is posting, NEITHER DOES ANYONE ELSE.

Until the FACTS come out, NO ONE knows EXACTLY what happened.

If so, it's about as smart as chickens supporting Col. Sanders. :rolleyes:

I can't answer for the Russians, but I can answer what I would have done, having spent a ton of time in No-Fly Zones.

We had bad guys (Iraqis), and others (Syrians; Iranians). If an Iraqi jet crossed the line, we were going to engage....no warning.

If it was a third-party, we would have used radio, interception and escort, and gun warning-shots across the nose.

The Fencer here was in an obvious CAS orbit. Even with no ordnance, F-16s could have joined to close formation and pointed to the South to say "get out." If the Su-24 was bold enough to try something, there is no way he could ever point at a Viper. They would reposition, and now with hostile intent demonstrated, shoot.

I saw multiple occasions in the No-Fly where the Turks would enter the Zone and attack the very people we were there to protect....from Iraq. We would be ordered out of the Zone.....

Turkey has not been playing ball since Kobane. They are highly suspected of buying the stolen oil. They hate the Kurds, and the Kurds are the only effective ground force against ISIS.

Wake up, Turkey. Russia should not be your enemy.

Wake up, world. Turkey is not acting like a friend.

I certainly wasn't picking sides. But we do not know all of the facts. If I had to bet on which brutish thug regime was wrong I would flip a coin. Russia seems to not care whom they bomb as long as it is not an Assad ally. Russia also seems to be relishing the notion of challenging soverign airspace all over the world. Maybe they found someone who takes their airspace a little more serious than say, Obama.

Saw this on another forum. It is a pretty good video on who is who in the mess.

http://youtu.be/NKb9GVU8bHE

This is a good summary, my unit intel folks actually circulated it. A little light on the shia vs. sunni aspect, which is a fundamental undercurrent of everything that goes on in the region.

:confused: What??!!

So the Russians have violated U.S. airspace?

Erdogan to his peeps in Germany: "Assimilation is a crime against humanity".
The World From Berlin : Erdogan's Visit Leaves German Conservatives Fuming - SPIEGEL ONLINE

I guess Merkel has a short memory and forgot that incident.

Erdogan and Putin are both thugs, but I wish Mr. Putin the upper hand in this particular row.

Beats me, if so it might have been part of the tell Vlad I'll be more flexible after the election deal.

They're doing what our leadership is to weak to do.

Reports saying Assad forces rescued the downed Co-Pilot and he has RTB. Co-Pilot stated they know the area like the back of their hand and were not over the border (that angle strip is 1.85mi wide). Also stated that no warnings issued visually or over the radio.
Glad one made it home.

Missing Russian jet pilot 'alive and well' in Syria - BBC News


http://sputniknews.com/russia/201511...violation.html

Our military disagrees with the fencer pilot on both the track and the warnings. Multiple warnngs, too many to count were reported.

I was listening to NPR in the car yesterday, and they reported there was video of the Turks shooting at the pilots while they were in the silk, and one of them was killed....so isn't there evidence now of a war crime?

Allegedly, the shooting was done by Turkmen rebels in Syria.

Turkmen are ethnic Turks who live in northern Syria. Some observers believe the Russians were bombing them, since they are anti-Assad, but Turkey is secretly allied with them.

This border incursion was a flimsy excuse to engage and cover Turkey's true rationale.

And yes, shooting at someone in a parachute is a war crime....assuming you can hold an abstract body such as "rebel group" accountable.

Or if we even subscribe to the notion that somehow, the waging of war can be made "civilized."

Were the people shooting at them signatories to Protocol 1 of the 1949 Geneva Convetions?
Doubtful.

Propping up a savage dictator by indiscriminately flinging unguided weapons everywhere Daesh is not? I won't argue our strategy isn't flawed but Putin is no one to get all damp in your panties over.

For now......

How many times was the story/narrative altered or changed by our government over the air strike that hit the hospital? Or over other events for that matter?

NOTHING is what it seems till the facts are revealed. Especially when you factor in all the sides, factions, and frenemies involved in this one.

Could be I heard the warning on the tube today. It sounded an awful lot like the warnings we used to get from our side in Korea when we were playing in the DMZ. Both governments are acting like thugs in Syria. Russia is bombing Turkey's allies because they are attacking Russia's allies. I am shocked that the Turks were a little over protective. As far as the shooting at chutes; one guy lived and the other aparently was killed on the ground, if there was shooting at chutes it wasnt very effective.

Right. But who knows? Whether in this conflict, or over the course of years how many times has Russia transgressed Turkish airspace? I don't know, no clue. And just because the military or lame stream media doesn't report it doesn't mean it doenst happen.

Circling back to my previous post, maybe it was a simply a case of the Turks saying "enough is enough".

Hard to build sympathy for the country who helped shoot down MH17.

No sympathy felt......

That's not the point.

The big Turks kids are ****ed about the loss of that bargain rate IS oil flowing across the border, they were handling it for the head choppers. Funny thing that the oil stopped flowing after the tanker trucks where attacked?
Irregardless, warned or not it was and easy shot into the arse end of a loitering bomber. Rescued NAV says they never seen it coming.
Obviously it wasn't thought out very well by the powers that called it, with gunning the chutes and all (where the stuff did all those cameras come from? the whole event was caught on video..)
One things for certain, everyone's lying to some degree, as can be expected.
Now throw some S-400's into the mix, IST anyone?

Report said the Turkish government has sent four(?) letters to the Russian Ambassador telling them to stop flying into Turkish airspace.

Apparently the Russians either didn't take they seriously or thought they didn't have to bother listen to them.

Fox 2.

Savage dictators are the only ones that provide stability in the region. Reference the current state of Libya, Egypt, and Iraq. You would over throw him? You may not like him but we need Assad in power.

Maybe, but that doesn't justify helping him murder his own population. Neither the Turks nor the Russians are proving to be good partners in this fight. Go figure.

Another reason to re-evaluate our entangling alliances.

If we are going to fight with one hand behind our back, let's pickle a thermonuclear device with the good hand.