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Low time Mil - where to place my bets?

Old 12-20-2016, 09:57 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Out West View Post
Many thanks, folks - the info and effort to respond is much appreciated. The regional aspect/option just surfaced recently but is quickly gaining momentum. There is one wildcard with the ANG; but I doubt it changes anyone's advice!


Regardless, I can't find any reason not to push the retire button. 22 years is enough, and from here forward its just delaying my next/last job. At least in my opinion.

I'm not super keen on the ISR gig; that place has seen enough of me. Sure, I may be guessing wrong - but I'd rather take my lumps for a bit in the regional world to get hours than get back into rotations back to the armpit of the world. (Then again - if I didn't get hired, I'm not saying never.)
I don't think you're guessing wrong on either of those.

The regionals are the way to go to get to a major IF you can afford to weather the financial storm associated with going to one. The landscape is a lot better now ($55k+ starting pay) than it was 18 months ago ($25k- starting pay). A pension makes regional starting pay livable, and 121 experience will get you to the show faster than ISR in most cases.
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Old 12-21-2016, 04:44 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Out West View Post
- Reading APC would lead one to believe that being hooked to a car battery is a better option than any regional. (Of course, according to the same forum - AA might be worse and DAL/UA/FedEx are not far behind.) Is there a general consensus of which regional to look at? (Pretty presumptuous to assume I get to pick, I know.)
Well, I think you will pretty much have your pick, to be honest. It is a buyer's market, and you are a highly desirable pilot for a regional to hire (if you do your part and prepare for the interviews, obviously). I totally agree with @Otterbox that time at a regional will get you to the show faster than an ISR/contractor gig.

Flying for a regional doesn't have to suck. I retired non-current, spent just over a year flying for a regional, and moved on to a career airline this year. I actually really enjoyed the time I flew at my regional -- I tell folks, "I liked every day except payday." You'll learn a ton about civilian and 121 flying, and if you have the right attitude, it can be a fun time. Adapting to a multi-pilot, rigidly scripted CRM environment can be an adjustment for a fighter dude, especially, and a regional is basically a stigma-free environment to get that professional development that will pay big dividends at your career airline. I really enjoyed the Captains and FAs I flew with, and had plenty of fun on the road. Mostly, I learned that I really enjoyed the airline lifestyle and the freedom it allows compared to the military life. There is real life beyond Big Blue, and it is good!

Your going-in argument is going to have to include you being emotionally and financially prepared for 12-24 months of flying at a regional before a better offer at a "career destination" comes along. It may very well occur much faster than that, but if you're prepared for a 2-year tour you won't be disappointed if it takes that long. Even for guys with hot resumes, there is a long lead time between application, interview, and starting class at a major airline job, so you may be flying at a regional for a while while that process proceeds for you.

Second, realize that your priorities in a regional job are going to be different than most straight civilian dudes going to the regionals. You want to get in, get 121 training/R-ATP/type rating on your resume, and get your hours up over the 1,500 hour unrestricted ATP hump, and later continue to build total time. It is a (hopefully) short-term proposition that has a good long-term prospect as a backup.

So, I'd look at these three things, in this order:
1. Commute/junior bases
2. Upgrade times
3. Pay/bonuses

Commute: In my opinion, the #1 quality of life impact for a short-termer at the regionals like you. Commutes aren't *necessarily* that much of a hassle, but they can be a total nightmare if the circumstances are wrong. Most importantly, over time they represent time away from home that you are not paid for. Where are you planning on living? Look at the junior bases for each of the regionals and see what's close to where you are living. I'd avoid a 2-leg commute like the plague, and look for a city pair that has maybe 5-10 flights between them per day, preferably on more than one airline. An easy commute can substantially make your life less painful. A tough commute can make an otherwise good job miserable.

Now, for these next two, some folks might disagree. There are good arguments for pay to be more important than upgrades, too, but in my opinion you are at a regional for the *experience* and not the money, and thus the priority I present:

Upgrade times: Every fighter pilot knows that every gameplan needs a "plan B", and upgrading to Captain is your Plan B in the unlikely event you don't get the call from a career airline in two years. Unfortunately, The PIC time offered by upgrading to Captain at a regional might matter to your resume. You are oh-so-close to that magic number of 1,000 hours of multi-engine PIC as it sits. I'm not sure if that will be a show-stopper; FedEx this year dropped the 1K TPIC as a requirement (but it is still highly desired) and reports say SWA is on the verge of dropping its TPIC requirement, too. Plus, Captain pay at the regionals is generally financially sustainable over time (especially if augmented by mil retirement). If you have to be stuck at a regional, not continuing to dig your family into a financial hole is obviously desirable. The point, here, is to have a quick-ish upgrade time in your back pocket, just in case.

Pay/bonuses: What's great is that you will have a military retirement to bolster your income, so pay shouldn't be as vital as it might to a guy who doesn't have that extra 3K/month rolling in. You'll have to look at each airline's bonus agreements; some of them require you to be there for year after year to get the full amount. The good news is that as the pilot supply situation gets more dire for the regionals, these bonuses are likely to increase at places that currently have them, or be added at airlines that don't have them. In my opinion, the pay is worth considering, but only should be a go/no-go item between airlines that otherwise evenly matched in terms of commute and upgrade.

X-factor: Flow agreements or preferred-interview programs. In my opinion, these are sucker bets for a military-trained and experienced pilot. You won't have any problem eventually getting hired at a legacy, so don't fall for the "you never have to interview again!" hype; you are not really the target audience for the benefits of a flow agreement. Still, it is a perfectly valid "plan C" for if all else falls through with your career plans.
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Old 12-21-2016, 06:39 AM
  #23  
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I'm not sure which airlines still require 1000 PIC multi turbine but there is probably an additive for military flight time so your 970 ME PIC turbine is well over 1000 with the conversion! I agree, go fly jets at a good Regional and I predict you won't be there much more than a year! You'll start off with the Restricted ATP but that will be upgraded quickly and you'll have your pick.
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Old 12-21-2016, 08:36 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by 155mm View Post
I'm not sure which airlines still require 1000 PIC multi turbine but there is probably an additive for military flight time so your 970 ME PIC turbine is well over 1000 with the conversion! I agree, go fly jets at a good Regional and I predict you won't be there much more than a year! You'll start off with the Restricted ATP but that will be upgraded quickly and you'll have your pick.
I think only SWA/UPS have the 1k turb pic requirement fwiw.
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Old 12-21-2016, 04:32 PM
  #25  
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Well, this is pretty much gold. Thanks to all, again!

Thanks Hacker, that confirms a lot of assumptions based on my homework - just better organized and well put. Of course, that opens a few more questions.

I've been a hard lean to the mindset of: this is temporary (actual time required TBD) and domicile has to be at the top of the list. Upgrade time definitely a consideration, I need the PIC time as well. Those lead me to a regional with northwestern bases. I'll be living in southern Oregon and a commute to the northeast would be crushing. That leads to....Horizon and PenAir first with Horizon in the hunt if I considered only domiciles. Medford 1, Boise/PDX tied at 2, Spokane 3, Seattle 4 and the rest a wash.

The problem is, Horizon and PenAir are turboprop, with Skywest at third due to domiciles. So the questions: is turboprop actually a "problem"? Seems like it would be, but that's pure guess. I haven't seen much on PenAir, but the horizon guys talk of the company as satan; not much different with Skywest.

Thoughts here?
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Old 12-21-2016, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Out West View Post
So the questions: is turboprop actually a "problem"?
Simply put, no. The majors don't care.

They especially won't care since you have tons of high performance military jet PIC time as the core of your experience.

Even without that, though, the majors see 121 flight time as 121 flight time, and really don't care what type of aircraft that took place in.

Since you are a PNW guy, don't forget to look at Compass and SkyWest, both of which have west coast bases that are relatively junior.
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Old 12-22-2016, 06:24 AM
  #27  
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The airline picks you, you don't pick them. You really hope your top choice chooses you but I doubt most get hired by their first choice. Then you pick a domicile, at the airline that hires you, or make the decision to commute.

And keep applying to #1 if 'not #1' hires you. A bunch of guys get additional calls after getting their first job. It's like the various hiring models seem to like the same candidates at times.

The biggest bases tend to be senior. Typically has all the flying, especially the best flying. But driving to work, even at a senior base, is a huge QWL event.
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Old 12-22-2016, 06:38 AM
  #28  
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The lowest fighter TT guy that I've seen had about 1,500 hrs when he got hired. There were several 1500-2000 hr fighter guys hired. Lower might get hired but I don't recall seeing those resumes. Do you might need 500(?) more hrs to reach the low bar???

I'd plan for a possible three year path. It might take less but three years would get you, IMO, solidly into the hiring pool.
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