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Navy rotary to airlines transition

Old 01-16-2017, 06:41 PM
  #1  
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Default Navy rotary to airlines transition

Well, I've been reading around these forums for the past couple hours. I must say it has been interesting.

I went to a hiring seminar yesterday in San Diego and was able to talk to a bunch of the recruiters from the regionals. It seems like there are a lot of openings, and a lot of what I've been hearing about a pilot shortage seems to be showing in the regionals specifically. One thing of note, I think any rotary wing guy considering the transition right know is aware of the Envoy program. Well, PSA, and Piedmont will also be offering a similar program as well. It seems AA has realized that we can be taught, and more quickly and cheaper than a "cadet" off the street.

Reading a lot in the regionals thread has been, well, shall we say enlightening? I'm just curious if there is anyone out there that has recently made the switch, or close to the switch.

Here's my considerations at this point. There's the "easy" button which is Envoy, PSA, and Piedmont right now. They all offer competitive FO pay, and bonuses keeping it around 60k a year. The upgrade time seems pretty similar from what I've gathered, with less than a six month disparity between them.

The other option is getting my 250 FWPIC time on my own. My current plan is getting my multi-engine when I get back from deployment roughly July/August timeframe. Then looking at CFI to get the rest of the time, using the weekends first, and next year around March I'll have about two months of terminal leave to get as many hours as possible in two months to get the 250.

So, I guess I'm debating between those two options. The first one, is the easy button, and what I've seen in the regionals thread they all seem like good options. Is there anyone who has done those already? The only commitment that I'm aware of is the 2 year commitment from the transition program. Is there some fine print that I'm missing there?

The second one may take a little longer, but opens up other options such as SkyWest, endeavor, express jet, and well all of the other regionals.

Any recommendations or reason for one over the other?

Oh, quick breakdown for me.

Navy -60 guy, retiring next year at 22 years, prior enlisted so only doing MSR from wings..

~1300 TT and will be current, or should be baring something crazy, when I retire.

~125 FW time, not pic though as almost all of that was flight school.
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Old 01-16-2017, 11:47 PM
  #2  
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Check out APTAP.org - Professionals Helping Professionals forum for RW to FW mil guys making the airline transition. Good luck!
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Old 01-17-2017, 03:53 AM
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Regionals. Get in, get out ASAP.
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Old 01-17-2017, 04:12 AM
  #4  
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Congrats on the retirement. In your situation there are two big factors to consider... all below is based on my experience as an 11 year active duty Naval Aviator (rotary wing), current reservist and Regional pilot, so take it for what it's worth.

1. Price: I left the military after 10 years and paid for my FW time out of pocket. It wasn't cheap, but you can actually build hours faster. My FBO charged about $150/hr wet for a $172 and I needed 200 hours and a ME rating. Adds up quick, though the GI Bill covered the ME rating. That said, I flew 4-6 hours a day and explored the NW United States on my own, which was awesome. If you can swing $30,000 or so, definitely an option. There are ways to do it significantly cheaper, but I was unable to make that happen.

2. QOL/Airline selection: Only one airline would interview me when I left active duty, so I went there. In this hiring environment any regional will take you when you get to ATP minimums. IMO, living in domicile and being where you want to be is huge. So, if any of the three offfering programs to get you hours happen to be in a place where you want to live (or could tolerate for a year or two), that's a huge win. I packed up my ******* and moved east, which has been a great experience, but I also have no family to consider. As pretty much everyone here will probably say, commuting to a regional is very doable and common, but it might suck.

Bottom line is that you'll expect to be at the regionals for at least a couple of years. I'm just crossing the 1000 hr mark here, and I like it. My airline is a sinking ship, but the people and the lifestyle are pretty great. Feel free to PM with any specifics, and best of luck.
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Old 01-17-2017, 11:01 AM
  #5  
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Originally Posted by bluesfan78 View Post
Well, I've been reading around these forums for the past couple hours. I must say it has been interesting.

I went to a hiring seminar yesterday in San Diego and was able to talk to a bunch of the recruiters from the regionals. It seems like there are a lot of openings, and a lot of what I've been hearing about a pilot shortage seems to be showing in the regionals specifically. One thing of note, I think any rotary wing guy considering the transition right know is aware of the Envoy program. Well, PSA, and Piedmont will also be offering a similar program as well. It seems AA has realized that we can be taught, and more quickly and cheaper than a "cadet" off the street.

Reading a lot in the regionals thread has been, well, shall we say enlightening? I'm just curious if there is anyone out there that has recently made the switch, or close to the switch.

Here's my considerations at this point. There's the "easy" button which is Envoy, PSA, and Piedmont right now. They all offer competitive FO pay, and bonuses keeping it around 60k a year. The upgrade time seems pretty similar from what I've gathered, with less than a six month disparity between them.

The other option is getting my 250 FWPIC time on my own. My current plan is getting my multi-engine when I get back from deployment roughly July/August timeframe. Then looking at CFI to get the rest of the time, using the weekends first, and next year around March I'll have about two months of terminal leave to get as many hours as possible in two months to get the 250.

So, I guess I'm debating between those two options. The first one, is the easy button, and what I've seen in the regionals thread they all seem like good options. Is there anyone who has done those already? The only commitment that I'm aware of is the 2 year commitment from the transition program. Is there some fine print that I'm missing there?

The second one may take a little longer, but opens up other options such as SkyWest, endeavor, express jet, and well all of the other regionals.

Any recommendations or reason for one over the other?

Oh, quick breakdown for me.

Navy -60 guy, retiring next year at 22 years, prior enlisted so only doing MSR from wings..

~1300 TT and will be current, or should be baring something crazy, when I retire.

~125 FW time, not pic though as almost all of that was flight school.
Whatever you do, try not to commute. Assuming you got an airplane commercial via MIL COMP? Can you get a gig flying light singles or something? I know a navy guy who had very little time (back seater to pilot to twice passed over and out) and needed a hundred hours or so for an r-ATP. He flew for a local sheriffs office or something like that for free time building until he could go to a regional. Perhaps you can fly for a skydiving outfit or something. Or, if you have a helo CFI via mil comp you could add on an ASEL CFI/I and log all that as PIC in the process. Kill two birds with one stone. Some GI bill can be used for that as well. I flew real helicopters in the real military (jokes) and rented then bought a plane while I was in. Then used GI bill for airplane inst/comm/multi add ons and got some additional time doing that. several army dudes where I was did the same thing. You can also buy a $25k POS 152, put a little time on it, then sell it for what you bought it for.

The AA wholly owneds and endeavor are the current best flavor of the week. But that changes monthly/yearly in the current regional landscape. SkyWest always seems to be a decent regional throughout the ups and downs. If you can go to a bottom feeder and not commute, that would still be the best choice IMO. And with an O5 (or whatever you are) retirement and medical, the difference between regionals is different for you than a guy with $200k aviation university debt. Those types need cheap medical and bonuses/big first year pay to try to pay down debt and get by. You need a regional with little to no reserve, with a minimal/zero commute, where you can pump out hours.

I've found that our helo time means very little to most airlines (except JetBlue). Mil helps check a box or two, but FW turb time is really the only thing that matters.
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Old 01-17-2017, 11:20 AM
  #6  
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I’d say maybe a combination of your two plans….do some fixed wing private pilot style flying while you’re finishing up active duty and then get on with the first regional you can. My thinking is that it’s been awhile since you’ve flown fixed wing so that would ease the transition to FW a bit (i.e. make regional training smoother) without delaying building 121 time that will get you to a major. Not so sure that spending the time and the money getting a CFI is worth it.

Not a previous helo guy but had a couple of friends that were in similar situations….

I’d also consider getting some interview prep now. I used Emerald Coast Interview consulting and would definitely recommend them. You don’t need this prep right now for your regional interview – but, at least with Emerald coast, you pay once and then can use their services indefinitely. So you can discuss your current situation now and then use them again when you come up for your major interview. Coming right out of the military, I also just learned a lot of basic airline life stuff from their seminar.

Best of luck, congrats on retirement!!
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Old 01-18-2017, 12:11 AM
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Another option would be ISR flying with L3, Dynamic or Avenge. If you can handle the schedule, you'll get your hours, PIC time in faster.
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Old 01-18-2017, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Packrat View Post
Another option would be ISR flying with L3, Dynamic or Avenge. If you can handle the schedule, you'll get your hours, PIC time in faster.
What ISR company would hire a helo guy with a little over 100 hours of fixed wing, to go fly king airs? Here is a cut and paste from dynamic's job listing: "Requirements include a current FAA Commercial or ATP certificate with any transport category multiengine turboprop PIC or SIC type rating (such as Casa, Saab, ATR, BE-1900, DHC -7 or military equivalent such as P-3, C-23, C-27, C-130, etc.). Non-ATP pilots are required to meet all of the requirements to apply for an ATP (including a current completed written exam) prior to the first day of employment. Additional flight time requirements are a minimum of 1000 hours PIC and 300 multiengine.

He's gonna have to buy flight time or find a real entry level job, which doesn't matter since he just needs to log hours. And right now, getting on at a regional is easier than any ISR job I looked into a couple years ago when I switched form RW to FW. And 121 experience is a little more valuable to majors than overseas king air time. It just pays less.
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Old 01-18-2017, 05:07 AM
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L3 has hired rotor guys without the ATP. ME rating obviously required, but the mins are relatively low.
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Old 01-18-2017, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by SideFlare View Post
L3 has hired rotor guys without the ATP. ME rating obviously required, but the mins are relatively low.
Interesting. All the postings I looked at were 300+ PIC of kingair/similar required and 1k fw time. If they relax those for helo dudes then that's cool. I assume the bro network (and airline hiring trend as of late) helps in that regard as well as there are probably fewer people willing to go back to the desert after retiring. That said, I still think checking the 121 box, getting a jet type/time, at 800 hrs/year, for $60k first year pay is a better choice for someone with OPs background, but family situation, financial situation, other stuff on his resume all may give him (or anyone reading this) a different perspective. I had people in my regional class coming from several years overseas (ISR and airline) and know a couple at my current airline who did the same. I also know some people left my regional for ISR jobs. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
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