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Old 12-13-2020, 08:12 AM   #21  
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My priorities are raising well adjusted young men and women, vice kids that I can send off to a four year daycare.

I'm spending my energy teaching my kids about money, about responsibility, about critical thinking.
Just to make sure it's not lost in the messaging: I'm not discouraging higher education with my kids by any stretch. On the contrary, I'm enthusiastically encouraging them to pursue higher learning, but to do so under their own steam, and that starts with taking responsibility for the endeavor from the start. The final goal that I am encouraging them to reach is to finish their formal education DEBT FREE.

Think about two graduates going out into the workforce. Same degree, same skills. One is unencumbered, while the other is saddled with $100k in loans. Which do you think is at the advantage?

My kids are privileged. I make sure of it.
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Old 12-13-2020, 09:25 AM   #22  
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Think about two graduates going out into the workforce. Same degree, same skills. One is unencumbered, while the other is saddled with $100k in loans. Which do you think is at the advantage?
They both are. That’s why student loan debt will never be forgiven.
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Old 12-13-2020, 11:01 AM   #23  
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You do you, man.

My priorities are raising well adjusted young men and women, vice kids that I can send off to a four year daycare. There's a reason why we have a workforce full of $100k indebted liberal arts majors with <$50k jobs; they all marched off to uni like good little automatons.

Thought exercise: would you send your kid to Med school just because? Law school? MBA? No, not without a solid plan of where you wanted to go with that very expensive education. And yet, like automatons, kids head off to college undeclared, or with a tenuous idea of their own career plans, at best. 5y? 6y? meh, doesn't really matter, mommy and daddy are picking up the tab. What's the value of the education at the particular school chosen? Is it a "party school", or in a fun location like an urban setting $$$ (because of course those are important considerations).

I'm spending my energy teaching my kids about money, about responsibility, about critical thinking. As a counterpoint, you have succinctly boiled down the talking points of the "marketing campaign" fed to us over the past five decades, which has hypnotized us into a behavior pattern driving the cost of education up eight times wages.

Higher education is a business. Once any business gets its feet under it, the next objective becomes growth, and engineering ways to part more money from the customer, and preferably at a lower unit cost than yesterday. Typically through marketing. Looks like the marketing has worked and my thesis "doesn't hold water". Checks.
Yep... we need doctors and we also need folks working at McDonalds... nothing wrong with picking either career path.
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Old 12-13-2020, 12:28 PM   #24  
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Yep... we need doctors and we also need folks working at McDonalds... nothing wrong with picking either career path.
Picking, yes. Being forced into it? Not so much. My oldest was at one point contemplating going to Pepperdine University. The discussion became a learning experience - for both of us. Her primary motivation to Pepperdine, it seemed, was that it was in Malibu and they have a beach there.

So we sat down and talked, about costs ($75K a year at Pepperdine) versus other options (she can take enough concurrent college level courses at the high school she will be attending to enter college with junior standing) and career viability of various majors (industrial engineering will probably be a better career choice than a PhD in Lesbian Poets of the 16th century).

So right now she’s taking junior high school courses to set her up for taking her entry level college courses in high school, then perhaps a year at a local community college before going to a good local state school - still not cheap at $30K a year - but she now has a reasonable plan for a meaningful degree, and I’m happy to fund it for her and her sibs.

I figure I owe my kids a little help in life. Their mother enlisted - she knew what she was getting into - the kids were drafted.
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Old 12-13-2020, 01:46 PM   #25  
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Always have heard any degree program that has as its last word in the title, “Studies” offers few job prospects and poor pay. It is called supply and demand.
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Old 12-13-2020, 02:41 PM   #26  
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Always have heard any degree program that has as its last word in the title, “Studies” offers few job prospects and poor pay. It is called supply and demand.

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“Bachelor’s degree holders in some majors earn more than many graduate degree holders,” the report stated. It went on to note that graduates with architecture and engineering bachelor's degrees earned an average of $83,000 annually, while education majors with graduate degrees still trailed them, with average incomes of $60,000 annually.

The difference in pay is evident right after graduation. The average college graduate earned $37,000 at the entry-level, the report found. But those with STEM degrees averaged $43,000, while their classmates with arts, humanities, and liberal arts degrees averaged $29,000. Both figures far outpaced the entry-level pay of recent high school graduates, who averaged $22,000 annually.
https://www.investopedia.com/article...rs-america.asp
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Old 12-14-2020, 06:46 PM   #27  
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What are the high school graduates’ incomes after 4 years in their industry? That’s a better comparison in my opinion.
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Old 12-14-2020, 07:12 PM   #28  
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What are the high school graduates’ incomes after 4 years in their industry? That’s a better comparison in my opinion.
Well, now there is the problem with averages. A median income would have been a better indicator, and you are right, a highly motivated person with no degree but a marketable skill can do quite well. What the article was REALLY trying to get at was the difference between incomes in STEM and liberal arts/social ‘sciences’ degrees.
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