wankel7

Still doesn't change the fact you do not have to spend 50k to get an EV.

An EV can be a serious way to save money on transportation costs. But one needs to set aside their confirmation biases and learn how to compute how much it really costs. Not many consumers dig that deep. Most just buy a Tesla because their neighbors did. It's becoming as common as Tupperware.

FNGFO

A cost benefit analysis is nice with anything, but dropping $20-30k today for a break even with gas that will take several years to come to fruition is probably not the way most average American households will tackle this economic environment. Granted, most have car payments anyway and may give the collective shoulder shrug of why not?, but they’re likely upside down in what they’re in anyway, and will either be making higher monthly payments or financing the vehicle forever to keep them low.

It’s a lot easier handle to pull when you make 4-6x the national average in pay. Less so for the average family of four with food prices alone consuming maybe 25% of you gross monthly income.

bajthejino

Hey, well, that's like your opinion man. But if everyone were to switch to EV's tomorrow, where is the juice going to come from the charge them?
Everything has a toll that must be paid. I'm a pro-nuclear guy myself. If we had nuclear plants, especially breeder plants like the French have embraced, and we all drove EV's, I think that would be great. Even if we didn't swtich to Frog Nuclear plants, I'm all for Nuclear no matter how its made. Full disclaimer: My father worked for TVA for 30+ years and worked in the control room in all positions, trained and wrote procedures for fun.
Having spent several years flying over, in, and around Congo this ****e is very real. The Chinese are having their way with it, and slavery is still alive, well and thriving in parts of the world.
https://www.greentechmedia.com/artic...onmental-risks
https://wwwhttps://www.nytimes.com/2...ning-race.html

I'm of the opinion that people shouldn't just assume the driving an EV is saving the earth with no side effects felt anywhere along the way. Nothing is free in life. Just like my cool Name Brand jacket made in Bangladesh, a few hundred people burn to death every year because ****heel people chain the doors closed so these poor people will stay and work 12-16 hours a day. But my Gaed, I do love that jacket when its raining, the wind is blowing and I'm riding my motorcycle...
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57763446

But I guess I'd like to know if I'm still wrong, and could you give me the shortest reason why if you have but a moment?

rickair7777

I'll start taking the climate clowns seriously when they start getting serious about nuclear. There is absolutely no other way in hell that we can meet their aspirations without collapsing the global economy... and leading to inevitable famine, war, genocide, etc.

There are a variety of very advanced, modern nuclear designs now available...

SMR's for ease of operation, maintenance, and scalability.

LFTR if you're worried about waste storage and cost.

Is it particularly cheap? No, except for LFTR. But there's no other way... banning carbon fuels and hoping something else will take it's place is not tenable. .Gov needs to build it first, or enable it to be built... then they will come.

TransWorld

Yes, even Elon Musk has said the US must increase fossil fuel production for the near term.

135tankerdriver

When you say things like climate clowns you sound extremely unintelligent. In case Fox News didn’t tell you not everyone who is environmentally conscious is against nuclear power. I personally think people in general are afraid of nuclear power on both sides of the isle, which is unfortunate especially with the technological advances that have been made in recent years.

135tankerdriver

I know you’re talking about the average consumer above but for those who are considering a used EV the fiat 500e is a pretty cool little city commuter car and makes for a great first EV for yourself or a teenage driver. They are made with Samsung batteries and a Bosch power train. From the forums I read they seem to be maintaining nearly all of their range (87 miles-ish city) as people put miles on them.

You can find them for around $8 grand give or take and based on my napkin math the car will pay for itself in about 30,000 to 50,000 miles depending on gas prices, the mpg of your current car, how often you change you oil, cost of electricity in your area, etc.

SonicFlyer

That's because, just like COVID, it isn't about preserving the environment, it's about pushing their agenda of control and implementing socialism / communism. Conservation and taking care of our resources? Yes, absolutely. Changing the global economy because of some theories about how it might possibly maybe be damaging the atmosphere, but has yet to be proven? Uh no.

Notice how they keep changing the goal posts.... it was global cooling, then it was global warming, now it's just climate change (hint: climate is dynamic and always changing). And then it was the ozone layer, and now it is carbon.....

We are the carbon they want to eliminate.

And then nuclear was the answer, but now that isn't good enough, so it is solar and batteries... well those damage the environment too so can't have that, wind turbines kill birds, and take more energy to manufacture than they produce...

They want us to all live in caves and eat grass.

That group of people are about 2 steps away from openly calling for mass sterilization and population control. Ever read the Georgia Guidestones?

rickair7777

I'm an environmentalist. I almost never look at FNC, although they very occasionally cover legit news that everybody else is ignoring (ex Cuomo brothers).

By "climate clowns" I'm referring to the people who approach the problem with feel-good sound-bite policies which look good to the base (almost none of whom are scientists or engineers), but have no practical basis in reality. One big reality: people (worldwide, especially third world) will not give up their lifestyle until the climate problem affects them personally and painfully. Even if a developmentally impaired child tells them to. You can't make them do it either, except possibly in North Korea. Swap out their 100W bulbs for 12W LED's? Sure, no problem. Give up driving to work, recreational travel, and general consumerism? No. Even if you could enforce that, it would lead to global economic collapse, war, famine, genocide, etc. Most likely worse than climate change, and sooner.

And yes I'm old enough to remember when the forecast was actually an ice age, then global warming, then climate change... I guess they needed a brand that could blow whichever way the wind goes (pun intended).

We absolutely don't know the pace or ultimate result of climate change. We do know what the CO2 levels are, and if we choose to assume that correlates in some fashion to a certain amount of climate change, then CO2 emissions have to be reduced, and we may even need pull some back out of the atmosphere and put it back where we found it (underground). The math on that does not work without nuclear, at least for the timelines being assumed. There's just not enough solar, geo, hydro, wind available... especially if you need more power to extract carbon from the atmosphere.

To say nothing of inevitable population growth... the carbon problem is TOTAL, not per capita.

It's a hard problem... SOMEBODY needs to man up and tell people the hard truth, even if they don't want to hear it. FFS even China gets it... 150 new nuke plants are currently planned.

Someday fusion and/or space-based solar should offer essentially unlimited energy, but fission power is probably needed to bridge the gap. Use thorium fuel if you're worried about long-term waste... it actually should have a lower cost/kW hour anyway.

rickair7777

Maybe we'll all end up flying blimps...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0hpcpnWAsQ