Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Pilot Lounge > Money Talk
CBAs that don’t exceed annual inflation… >

CBAs that don’t exceed annual inflation…


Notices
Money Talk Your hard-earned money

CBAs that don’t exceed annual inflation…

Old 06-28-2022, 06:16 AM
  #1  
Perennial Reserve
Thread Starter
 
Excargodog's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,843
Default CBAs that don’t exceed annual inflation…

Mean that you are losing ground…


…or AT BEST not gaining ground.

Time to start building inflation multipliers into future pay scales. Yeah, I know, you can argue whether or not the CPI or the producer price index or some other index is most appropriate or even a multiplier to the one chosen to offset the fact you are also being forced into a higher tax bracket, but no rational person can argue for not using ANY inflation offset. Not with inflation hitting 8% per year.
Excargodog is offline  
Old 06-28-2022, 09:02 AM
  #2  
Prime Minister/Moderator
 
rickair7777's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,712
Default

Yes, everybody knows that. Management thinks that it's natural for labor to suffer from inflation, they don't feel any obligation to keep up.
rickair7777 is offline  
Old 06-28-2022, 11:50 AM
  #3  
Perennial Reserve
Thread Starter
 
Excargodog's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,843
Default

Originally Posted by rickair7777
Yes, everybody knows that. Management thinks that it's natural for labor to suffer from inflation, they don't feel any obligation to keep up.
THAT I expect. The number of alleged pilots posting here that think an inflation adjusted CBA is NOT a good idea is what I find disturbing.
Excargodog is offline  
Old 06-28-2022, 09:40 PM
  #4  
Prime Minister/Moderator
 
rickair7777's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,712
Default

Originally Posted by Excargodog
THAT I expect. The number of alleged pilots posting here that think an inflation adjusted CBA is NOT a good idea is what I find disturbing.
The typical semi-annual pay bumps are supposed to address *normal* inflation.

On DOS, you need the base rates to account for inflation to date PLUS whatever gains you squeeze out of management.

You could hypothetically peg the semi-annual bumps to actual inflation values.
rickair7777 is offline  
Old 06-28-2022, 09:48 PM
  #5  
Perennial Reserve
Thread Starter
 
Excargodog's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,843
Default

Originally Posted by rickair7777
The typical semi-annual pay bumps are supposed to address *normal* inflation.

On DOS, you need the base rates to account for inflation to date PLUS whatever gains you squeeze out of management.

You could hypothetically peg the semi-annual bumps to actual inflation values.
More than hypothetically. Social Security and military pension increases are pegged to the CPI. It would scarcely be groundbreaking.

And we ain’t having *normal* inflation right now. And may not for some time. And it won’t take many years of compounding 8% per year inflation to seriously erode the value of your paycheck.
Excargodog is offline  
Old 06-29-2022, 06:42 PM
  #6  
Prime Minister/Moderator
 
rickair7777's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,712
Default

Originally Posted by Excargodog
More than hypothetically. Social Security and military pension increases are pegged to the CPI. It would scarcely be groundbreaking.
It would be groundbreaking in airlines, not aware of anyone who has that. No idea about other union trades.

Originally Posted by Excargodog
And we ain’t having *normal* inflation right now. And may not for some time. And it won’t take many years of compounding 8% per year inflation to seriously erode the value of your paycheck.
This can't go on for much longer or we'll have a depression... it should be naturally self-limiting, unless we're in some kind of new paradigm.
rickair7777 is offline  
Old 06-29-2022, 07:38 PM
  #7  
Perennial Reserve
Thread Starter
 
Excargodog's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,843
Default

Originally Posted by rickair7777



This can't go on for much longer or we'll have a depression... it should be naturally self-limiting, unless we're in some kind of new paradigm.
Recession? Yes.
Depression? Unlikely.

Which doesn’t mean it can’t get ugly. Here’s the annualized inflation rates by month for 13 years starting in 1970:



Once it gets this bad it can stay bad for quite awhile.

Western Europe commonly has wages with indexing for inflation:

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/pub/pdf/ot...focus05.en.pdf


In Argentina many companies adjust salaries for inflation four or five times a year:

https://www.wtwco.com/en-US/Insights...t-on-argentina

Justbecause it hasn’t been done in the airline industry doesn’t mean it CAN’T be done in the airline industry. It is hardly the fault of the pilots that the value of the dollar is decreasing in real terms, and certainly managements have not been shy about increasing ticket prices.
Excargodog is offline  
Old 07-02-2022, 08:02 PM
  #8  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 331
Default

Inflation needs to be taken much more seriously by pilots and unions in CBA negotiations.
panpanpan is offline  
Old 07-03-2022, 06:43 AM
  #9  
Gets Weekends Off
 
SonicFlyer's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 3,686
Default

Remember that the CPI is a bogus metric, actual inflation is at least twice the official amount.
SonicFlyer is offline  
Old 07-03-2022, 09:14 AM
  #10  
Perennial Reserve
Thread Starter
 
Excargodog's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,843
Default

Originally Posted by SonicFlyer
Remember that the CPI is a bogus metric, actual inflation is at least twice the official amount.
One can argue WHICH inflation metric is appropriate, but it is difficult to argue that not incorporating ANY inflation based metric is appropriate, if only because it incentivizes management to draw out renegotiating CBAs as long as possible. Even if there is a look back provision and that provision covers the whole period back to the amendable date (as opposed to something like the current UA six month look back, management STILL benefits because they wind up paying those old debts in newer (devalued) dollars.

Absent SOME inflation offset (or the exceedingly rare possibility of deflation), management can ONLY benefit by dragging out negotiations.

And while we are on the subject of negotiations, it’s time to get rid of the idea some people have that negotiations are always a compromise (What are we willing to give up to get… x.). They are NOT. When the leverage was on THEIR side, management was quite willing to use it to eliminate pension benefits and other things won through decades of collective bargaining. There should be ABSOLUTELY no reluctance on the part of pilot union negotiators to expect and DEMAND real gains in both inflation adjusted pay AS WELL AS quality of life work rules now that the leverage is disproportionately on the pilot side.

What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the friggin’ gander.
Excargodog is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
86BravoPapa
Regional
38
03-15-2020 08:24 AM
glyde
Major
120
11-11-2011 02:31 PM
757Driver
Major
26
08-09-2011 05:50 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices