Originally Posted by SayAgain

Ponzi scheme: A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to separate investors from their own money or money paid by subsequent investors, rather than from any actual profit earned. The Ponzi scheme usually offers returns that other investments cannot guarantee in order to entice new investors, in the form of short-term returns that are either abnormally high or unusually consistent. The perpetuation of the returns that a Ponzi scheme advertises and pays requires an ever-increasing flow of money from investors in order to keep the scheme going.

According to this definition SS is a ponzi scheme. If everyone quit paying right now - do you think it would be funded adequately to get the money out that you put in (and your employer matched).

We are forced to contribute and at the end the Government hands the money out on their terms - how much and when you get it. Imagine if you had had that money the whole time to invest - at the end it's yours and you make the decisions what to do with it. Spend it all, or not, or jeez even pass some on to your kids!

Originally Posted by FighterHayabusa

Well quit paying then, see how well it works for you.

Originally Posted by DYNASTY HVY

How about picking one state as a test bed for this so -called healthcare idea that way we can see if it will work and if it does not then it's back to the drawing board?



Fred

Originally Posted by FighterHayabusa

Well quit paying then, see how well it works for you.

Originally Posted by SayAgain

Great idea - or how bout we insist our elected officials try it out first.

Originally Posted by SayAgain

That's not the point of the post.

Originally Posted by jungle

Good point. When there is no logic, the threat of force is needed.

Originally Posted by FighterHayabusa

Is ANY pay as you go pension system illogical, or just ours?

Originally Posted by Winged Wheeler

I think pensions, whether underwritten by the gov't or corporations, are a bad bet. I know many people in our industry see a defined benefit pension as an indicator of a still healthy company (or country in the case of SS). I disagree for the following reasons.

Pensions are paternalistic--they assume I can't plan for my own retirement.

Pensions necessarily reduce my current income for a promise to pay in the future.

Pensions give an incentive to engage in relatively risky investment behavior.

I always think of the guy in the old Popeye cartoons: "I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today." The hamburger is what you would have made without the pension. Will Wimpy still be around on Tues (think Westinghouse or PanAm)? If so, will he still have any money (think GM or the US treasury)?

I know a lot of people will disagree with me on this, but I'd rather have the money I make in exchange for my labor now and take care of my own future.

WW