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mike734 10-17-2013 09:35 PM

One difference was Bernie was the custodian of his clients money. That's very different than leaving it in Schwab or Fidelity. Anyway your points are well taken. I agree with using an expert who bills by the hour. I will also ask them to sign a fiduciary statement.

flap 10-18-2013 05:22 AM


Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver (Post 1503226)
I'd be careful with this. The following is an excerpt from an article that was written in 2008, but I think it still applies today. Anyway, some good food for thought on target date funds:
________________________________________________
Lately, I have been getting a lot of questions about target date funds. No wonder. Target date funds are being touted as the answer to our retirement investing conundrum. They are being proposed as the default choice in a 401(k) plan. And they are sprouting up like weeds. So should you put your money in a target date fund?


The short answer is … only as a last resort. But first things first.
A target date fund is a mutual fund with an asset allocation tied to your target retirement date. If you think you will retire in 20 years, you would pick a 2030 target date fund, with 2030 being roughly the year you plan to retire.



These funds are really funds of funds. The fund manager chooses other funds, from the same fund family, in percentages that make up a reasonable asset allocation given your time until retirement. It is the fund managers job to adjust those percentages for you automatically as your retirement date approaches, becoming progressively more conservative. These funds typically hold a mix of stocks, bonds and cash and will often include an allocation to foreign equities as well.


It’s no wonder I have been getting so many questions about target date funds lately. In 2000, there were only 23 target date funds in existence, with just about $8 billion in assets. Today, there are over 250 target date funds, with $160 billion in assets, and more being brought to market every day. But should you plunk your retirement savings in a target date fund and forget it?


I don’t think so and here is why …


1. One size doesn’t fit all, with any investment.
2. Target date funds are too conservative.
3. There are better ways.


Target date funds are being touted as one stop shopping. Just pick a retirement date, pick the fund with your retirement year in the name, and let the fund manager do the rest. But does it really make sense that the CEO of a company should have the same asset allocation as a clerk in his Accounting Department? Not likely!


An investor has to put together an asset allocation based on his or her long-term objectives, risk tolerance, time horizon and temperament. You choose the combination of investments that has the highest probability of satisfying each of those criteria over your anticipated time horizon. It is possible that is a single investment but often it is not.


My biggest gripe with target date funds is they are too conservative. Let’s make some assumptions about your retirement. The first is your retirement will last thirty years. That is the joint life expectancy of a 65 year old, non-smoking couple.



Second is that inflation will average 3.5% over that 30 years. Forget for a moment that seniors experience inflation at a greater rate than the nation as a whole, largely because of the cost of healthcare. We’ll just use the historical average.


Third is that you will begin withdrawing funds from your portfolio at the rate of 4% a year. And fourth, let’s assume your marginal tax bracket will be 25%. Now, what is the return required over your 30 years in retirement to pay Uncle Sam, pay you, and still get enough growth in your portfolio to keep up with inflation?
http://www.kimsnider.com/blog/images/bridge.jpgThe answer is 10%. That is (4 + 3.5) / (1-.25) or your withdrawal rate plus inflation divided by one minus your marginal tax rate. Which means we have a gap. Our current way of thinking about investments is too conservative.
If you model the traditional 60%/40% retirement portfolio, the expected rate of return over 30 years is only 8%. A 4% withdrawal rate may give me a high probability I won’t run out of money but it almost assures that I won’t be able to buy anything with the money I have left. In order to protect against conversion risk, target date funds, because they are based on asset allocation models designed for our parents and grandparents, get too conservative too fast.



What worked for previous generations will not work for ours. We are the first generation solely responsible for funding our own retirement. Unfortunately, no one told us that until, for many of us, it was too late. On top of that, we are living longer. Life expectancy has increased by ten years. That is both good news and bad news. That’s ten more years to travel, play golf and spend quality time with our family. But it is also ten more years without a paycheck.


Like it or not, we have to come to grips with the idea that our investment time horizon isn’t our retirement date. Our time horizon extends over our entire lifetime. Moreover, it seems plainly obvious to me our lifestyle in retirement is going to be a function the amount of our portfolio we leave in stocks. Unless you are one of the few with more than enough money, that is the only way our portfolio can keep up with inflation, taxes, and still support a reasonable lifestyle over 30 years.


Target date funds don’t do that. They are by nature too conservative.
My regular readers and radio show listeners know I don’t like mutual funds, as a rule. I especially don’t like actively managed mutual funds because their high fees guarantee over time you will under-perform the market itself. The only time I would ever use a mutual fund is in an employer-sponsored retirement account, like a 401(k) or 403(b) and that is just because I don’t have a choice.


Most plans are adding target date funds as an investment option. Should you choose it?


Only as a last resort. I believe a well-thought out asset allocation of low-cost index funds is the much better plan. But if your plan doesn’t offer low-cost index funds, or you aren’t willing to spend the time and money required to learn how to maximize your 401(k), (which is minimal BTW), then target date funds are far better than just picking the funds with the best historical performance and/or allocating between stocks and bonds based on what you think the market is going to do. That is a sure fire way to waste your retirement funds.


Bottom line on target date funds … they aren’t the panacea the fund industry would like us to think they are. Do the work. You can do better.


Good points and a good article, but there are a few counterpoints.

Target date funds are generic, as they ignore personal risk tolerance and group all 55 year-olds together.

You can build, or have built for you at a cost, a more personalized portfolio. In the context of the original post, I was under the impression that they were not comfortable with doing it themselves, hence the question on advisors.

In that case a target date fund would probably be the easiest method, and the best performing on a net of fees basis.

The main reason for the tremendous jump in TDF's is that they have the D.O.L. blessing as the preferred default vehicle. There is a lot if innovation in the TDF universe including adding exposure to alternative asset classes not readily available in small amounts.

We have added TIPS, commodities, Infrastructure and emerging markets.

Nobody will care about your money as much as you do. If you have the time, you can put together a well diversified, low fee portfolio using index funds, ETF's, and some active management.

If you don't have the desire or confidence to go it alone, then the target date fund is probably the easiest and cheapest alternative.

DAL 88 Driver 10-18-2013 08:13 AM


Originally Posted by flap (Post 1503777)
Nobody will care about your money as much as you do. If you have the time, you can put together a well diversified, low fee portfolio using index funds, ETF's, and some active management.

Totally agree with this. That's why I suggested Snider Advisor's 401k course earlier (assuming they still offer this... I'm not sure). I believe it teaches you to do exactly as you are suggesting. And I don't think managing it that way takes much time at all. Now I don't use this because I use the Snider Method in my 401k. But most 401k's don't have the brokerage link capabilities to be able to do that method. So I think what you are suggesting is the next best thing, and that is exactly what I would be doing if I wasn't fortunate enough to have the capabilities that we have at Delta in our 401k.


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