Captain/Captain pairing NetJets
#81
I think you're on to something here. Certainly the modification of required PPA on disposal fleets was designed to make those fleets leaner as they draw down rather that the overly generous staffing that existed when the first airplane went into disposal.
My fleet under the previous contractual minimum was 6.8. New contractual minimum is 5.0 for disposal fleets. Including those currently on LOA, my fleet now is at 5.3 PPA. Counting honest-to-god active pilots, we're at 4.4. Contractually compliant, operationally difficult.
The entire purpose was to re-arrange the deck chairs a bit and leave them a LOT more wiggle room to match staffing to demand across ALL fleets.
My fleet under the previous contractual minimum was 6.8. New contractual minimum is 5.0 for disposal fleets. Including those currently on LOA, my fleet now is at 5.3 PPA. Counting honest-to-god active pilots, we're at 4.4. Contractually compliant, operationally difficult.
The entire purpose was to re-arrange the deck chairs a bit and leave them a LOT more wiggle room to match staffing to demand across ALL fleets.
How is 4.4 compliant? Because it’s in disposal?
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#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 1,020
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#83
There is a reason why NJASAP has avoided section 6, and signs very long contracts. I know they work hard, and they are a valuable asset to the pilot group, but they are not nearly as powerful at negotiating as a mainline ALPA negotiating committee.
#85
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Posts: 46
Man, you really reach to try to shine a negative light on NJ. I remember when you said airline pilots would rather not have a job at all than fly for NJ. Maybe you should just chill, and watch a movie or something. Relax!
#86
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2020
Posts: 26
It isn't a simple as that. The majority vote works if the company can get away with something by giving it to the majority of pilots who won't care about anything else. Think of it as single issue voting. Where that falls short or should, at a union carrier is where management doesn't have that golden egg... Problem with all pilots, is that we are money hungry so as soon as we see dollar signs, we tend to forget the minutia.
There is a reason why NJASAP has avoided section 6, and signs very long contracts. I know they work hard, and they are a valuable asset to the pilot group, but they are not nearly as powerful at negotiating as a mainline ALPA negotiating committee.
There is a reason why NJASAP has avoided section 6, and signs very long contracts. I know they work hard, and they are a valuable asset to the pilot group, but they are not nearly as powerful at negotiating as a mainline ALPA negotiating committee.
Or more likely our union didn't want to leave out the smaller groups who deserve to have a few things.
As for negotiating for what the majority want, well yeah, that's how it should be. Neither the company nor the union would ever get a contract passed if they were trying to figure out how to appease every single sub-group within our pilot ranks.
We should get raises. Oh, but should more of that money go to SIC's? Maybe. But then there are SIC's who live at more productive bases than others. Override pay for SIC's at the more productive bases? And what about bases? There appears to be a very small contingent who want places life HNL, ANC and SJU as crew bases. How much negotiating capitol should we use to get that? Do they get after midnight pay? Should those bases be restricted to only pilots in fleets that go there? Some pilots want more of the FDP money going into our 401K's. Some want less. Some want to keep it like it is. IRS rules don't allow multiple options, so which group gets its way?
I could go on, but I I've made my point. It's not that we shouldn't be trying to make everyone happy, but that it's really not possible to do so. If we want a contract to pass, most of it has to appeal to the majority. Yes, it kinda sucks for whatever minority group someone happens to be in, such as an SIC, but with a group of 70%+ captains we'll never pass a contract that offers, say, the majority of a pay raise to SIC's.
Overall though, I think our union has done a very good job of securing something for everyone, either through contract negotiations, the JWG, LOA's or all of them combined. What percentage of our group actually wanted DAB as a base? Percentage wise, not many. Yet our union never gave up on it. Yes, it took a while, but it got done.
We're doing really well, IMHO.
#87
Speed, Power, Accuracy
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: PIC
Posts: 1,693
But we are forced to include those on LOA, most of whom have no intention of returning, in the compliance PPA calculation.
#88
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: C47 PIC/747-400 SIC
Posts: 2,100
Did you actually read the entire agreement? There's a lot more in there than just money. Even a few things that only benefit a tiny percentage of our group. Kind of blows up the theory that they only focus on the majority.
Or more likely our union didn't want to leave out the smaller groups who deserve to have a few things.
As for negotiating for what the majority want, well yeah, that's how it should be. Neither the company nor the union would ever get a contract passed if they were trying to figure out how to appease every single sub-group within our pilot ranks.
We should get raises. Oh, but should more of that money go to SIC's? Maybe. But then there are SIC's who live at more productive bases than others. Override pay for SIC's at the more productive bases? And what about bases? There appears to be a very small contingent who want places life HNL, ANC and SJU as crew bases. How much negotiating capitol should we use to get that? Do they get after midnight pay? Should those bases be restricted to only pilots in fleets that go there? Some pilots want more of the FDP money going into our 401K's. Some want less. Some want to keep it like it is. IRS rules don't allow multiple options, so which group gets its way?
I could go on, but I I've made my point. It's not that we shouldn't be trying to make everyone happy, but that it's really not possible to do so. If we want a contract to pass, most of it has to appeal to the majority. Yes, it kinda sucks for whatever minority group someone happens to be in, such as an SIC, but with a group of 70%+ captains we'll never pass a contract that offers, say, the majority of a pay raise to SIC's.
Overall though, I think our union has done a very good job of securing something for everyone, either through contract negotiations, the JWG, LOA's or all of them combined. What percentage of our group actually wanted DAB as a base? Percentage wise, not many. Yet our union never gave up on it. Yes, it took a while, but it got done.
We're doing really well, IMHO.
Or more likely our union didn't want to leave out the smaller groups who deserve to have a few things.
As for negotiating for what the majority want, well yeah, that's how it should be. Neither the company nor the union would ever get a contract passed if they were trying to figure out how to appease every single sub-group within our pilot ranks.
We should get raises. Oh, but should more of that money go to SIC's? Maybe. But then there are SIC's who live at more productive bases than others. Override pay for SIC's at the more productive bases? And what about bases? There appears to be a very small contingent who want places life HNL, ANC and SJU as crew bases. How much negotiating capitol should we use to get that? Do they get after midnight pay? Should those bases be restricted to only pilots in fleets that go there? Some pilots want more of the FDP money going into our 401K's. Some want less. Some want to keep it like it is. IRS rules don't allow multiple options, so which group gets its way?
I could go on, but I I've made my point. It's not that we shouldn't be trying to make everyone happy, but that it's really not possible to do so. If we want a contract to pass, most of it has to appeal to the majority. Yes, it kinda sucks for whatever minority group someone happens to be in, such as an SIC, but with a group of 70%+ captains we'll never pass a contract that offers, say, the majority of a pay raise to SIC's.
Overall though, I think our union has done a very good job of securing something for everyone, either through contract negotiations, the JWG, LOA's or all of them combined. What percentage of our group actually wanted DAB as a base? Percentage wise, not many. Yet our union never gave up on it. Yes, it took a while, but it got done.
We're doing really well, IMHO.
#89
Captain/Captain pairing NetJets
That makes sense on 4.4 then. But then again, 4.4..ouch. I’m sure y’all are probably feeling that pain.
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