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-   -   NJ for Families in 21 and Beyond (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/netjets/134078-nj-families-21-beyond.html)

AirBear 06-11-2021 09:40 AM

I'm in CLT and was with USAirways from 1989-2003 then got caught in the big furlough. I wound up at NetJets in 2005 and stayed there, declining recall to USAirways. I went out on medical in 2017 and have stayed out. I did a lot of commuting at USAirways. PIT, DCA, BOS, PHL. PITA. I also held CLT a few times, that was very nice. Even being senior reserve was a great deal since I live 11 miles from the airport.

The other posts have covered most of the differences but I'll throw in a few. One big one is the type of flying you do. At NJA it's usually just 2 pilots and a jet. About 40% of your legs will be empty ferry flights. Great dispatchers and usually good support from the company. You never know where you'll wind up. I was inflight diverted several times to cover a trip that suddenly came open. In winter you don't know whether to pack for MSP or MIA. Even after 12 years at NetJets is was very rare I flew a trip and didn't see a new airport at least once. At AA it'll be like groundhog day. Also some very challenging airports to fly into.

I've had to dig rocks out of a ditch to use for wheel chocks. On the other side I've stayed in a Ritz Carlton Resort for 3 days waiting on MX. Yes, you have to load and arrange the catering, occasionally check the inventory of snacks and beverages and also clean the jet after a pax leg. At least now all the jets with "honey buckets" are gone, all have externally serviced lavs (I think). It's just a totally different flying experience from the airlines. Depending on equipment flown you'll see a lot of uncontrolled fields. I've have some major adventures just getting to/from the jet when I was in small towns.

Some other advantages of NetJets: Fantastic Insurance! My COBRA runs out in November and I'm going to miss that insurance. You pay nothing for it. Office visits are just $20. ER/Hospital is a flat $150. I had Bell's Palsy back in November, the phone nurse thought it might be a stroke so my wife rushed me to the ER. I was admitted to the Hospital for an MRI. Total bill was $150.
Other benefits are a lot of hotel points, airline miles, and rental car points. We did CLT-HNL 1st class and stayed a week at a hotel all on points. Fuel rewards are nice too, but I don't know the latest on those, might not be as good as it once was.

JJDriver 06-12-2021 04:20 AM


Originally Posted by 4thgenaviator (Post 3247375)
Hey everyone,

Happy to see things picking up.

Does anyone have any insight on what life is like at Netjets (7/7, 60, or 52) for family life currently and what it may be like in the future? I’m considering making the jump (currently 121 regional) and would just like some info on how the schedules affect families. I have 3 kids - 4, 2, and 3 months. My wife works, too. I think the predictability of the 7/7 would be great, but 7 days away also seems like a lot. Though I’m sure it’s not worse than reserve at a regional.

Oh, and before it’s asked, I’m not gunning for a major airline job because my family and I don’t want to move. We’re happy where we are with extended family pretty close. I know that if I went to a major, I’d likely be commuting to reserve. No thanks.

TIA for any insights, y’all!


This has been an ongoing debate for years, even amongst our own message board. Like many things in life, the grass isn't necessarily greener, it's just different. It all comes down to what works for you an you're family. NetJets has changed quite a bit and some of the information you're getting isn't entirely accurate. Just for reference I'm a 14 year FO and I passed on my class date with a major about 2 years ago. I was all set to go, but the airline started having issues and it was looking like a long, hard commute. However, I have a good side gig, my wife makes a six figure salary working part time, both of my children are on the autism spectrum, we need every member of our family/village, and for me to get to a base I'm looking at a 2 leg commute or a 2 hour drive plus flight time. And I was never a good commuter when I did it for several years.

If you go to a major you will make more money over your career for several likely have more time off (barring any more disasters, which seem to happen every 10 years). By nature corporate will always be harder, given that everything is your responsibility and they type of flying we do. Yes you do have to clean the plane, but on average I spend 5 minutes every passenger leg (2-3 a day as half of them are ferry legs) straightening up. Sometimes you do get passengers who do a number on the back. You do load bags, on average maybe 3-4 suitcases a passenger leg, except during snowbird season where they will bring the kitchen sink. But if you're not feeling it, tip a line guy to do it. Yes we are expected to tip and do get reimbursed. We also have service hubs across the country. If you're going/coming from one you walk off the plane as is and they stock and clean it for you.

You will work hard most days, at least for now. But I've had plenty of days where I've been on the beach at one Caribbean island before lunch and then another island by the same time then next day. You never know, but now the more you fly the more you make.

The movement here has always been slow, however in the next 3-4 years nearly 20% of the current seniority list will be at or above 65. In the next 7-10 it will be nearly half the list, not accounting for growth which we seem to have a good bit of at the moment. So the upgrade time will steadily come down although you'd still likely be an FO for many years.

There's a variety of schedules but I've always been on the 7/7. It can get long, but I love the predictability. My wife, who would be totally happy for me to be a stay at home dad, can't understand why more companies don't do it. Knowing when I'm home and not depending on a commute is huge for us. I have friends who commute, some don't mind and others hate it. I know the rules have gotten better, but I still run into crew members at the gate who are traveling up half a day early to make an early show. Like everything YMMV.

The big part about 7/7 is the vacation. It's an automatic 21 days off. I line mine up to have every third month off. Granted it does take time to accrue vacation and PTO. Also, on the 7/7 you are not locked to miss half of everything. First you bid as to have as much off as you can. You can change schedules every 4 months if you choose (7/7, 18 day, CC) obviously seniority based. If you need time off you have the option to drop, may or may not happen, you have PTO days that max out at 12 days a year (I go for a 5th week of vacation), you can slide a tour either direction, then do a combo of sliding and PTO days. Remember since you can plan, the times of needing the last minute changes does go down. Also, if you're planning on another child FMLA is awesome. Its 12 WORK weeks off over the year at your choosing. I think I worked 40 days one year when my 2nd was born. Normally though, I work about 18-19 weeks a year using all vacation and PTO.

After a little time you'll likely not pay much for vacations between all the points and miles you build.

The medical is great, the only thing you pay is a $20 copay or $150 for anything major.

The airlines definitely win on retirement, but it is a 58% match plus 33% of your flight pay goes to your 401k. If you max out your 401k each year, you'd be putting $35-40k a year into your retirement.

That's most of the highlights, it has it's pros and cons to the airlines. Many of us are airline refugees who came up during a time that wasn't as good as it is now, but NJ has turned into a good job. Just a piece of advice, do a little research on some of the other NetJets threads. You will find some bitter former employees. I don't blame them, I was there too after many years of a stalled career, not to mention all the other furloughs, flowbacks, and flight department closures I've been through in my career. However when you have pilots that have moved to other companies and still come back to say how good their company and how bad NJ is years after they left, I would call into question how happy the really are. Admittedly I trolled the airline I passed on for a few months to see if I had made the right decision, but eventually I accepted my decision and moved on. Good luck with your decision.

C2078 06-12-2021 07:23 AM


Originally Posted by 4thgenaviator (Post 3247375)
Hey everyone,

Happy to see things picking up.

Does anyone have any insight on what life is like at Netjets (7/7, 60, or 52) for family life currently and what it may be like in the future? I’m considering making the jump (currently 121 regional) and would just like some info on how the schedules affect families. I have 3 kids - 4, 2, and 3 months. My wife works, too. I think the predictability of the 7/7 would be great, but 7 days away also seems like a lot. Though I’m sure it’s not worse than reserve at a regional.

Oh, and before it’s asked, I’m not gunning for a major airline job because my family and I don’t want to move. We’re happy where we are with extended family pretty close. I know that if I went to a major, I’d likely be commuting to reserve. No thanks.

TIA for any insights, y’all!

It comes down to what is important for you. Time off, money, not knowing what you are doing day to day vs knowing exactly, your age, so many factors.

Netjets has become a pretty good job. No doubt. I would say the younger you are the “better” future you have at a major. Mid 40’s and older, you may not have enough time to capture the main advantages of a major.

Medical monthly premiums is a big consideration. For example, at Delta, a family of 4 on the top plan is around $700/m 😳. Netjets you pay nothing.

Some people hate commuting, but not all commutes are the same. Living in base, if an option, is an absolute dream. On the flip side, having the company pay you to go to work is a huge benefit.

From someone who has been on the regional side, Netjets and now cargo, it all comes down to preference. There is no right or wrong answer. The job has not changed much at Netjets, what did change was the compensation post 2018, putting it more on par with airlines. 7/7 offers a lot of predictability, and yes, 7 days on the road is a long time, especially in the fleets that get beaten up consistently. The CC72/76 do pay more, but short turn arounds was simply too brutal for me. There are guys at NJ who make $300k a year, but, for the same $300k, for example, a Southwest FO will probably work 25-30% less days in the year and will have the ability to move around his schedule to fit his needs a bit better.

Bottom, NJ is a good job, put on the table all the factors that are important to you, and see it clearly on paper laid out in front of you. Some people like knowing where they are going, others don’t care. The crew meals at NJ are a plus, don’t count on anything good at the airlines. The airline miles and hotels points are great, but they have been so devalued over the years that I personally prefer the pass travel option even with flights being full all the time. Again, no right or wrong answer.

When I left NJ I did bash the job a bit, before IBB 2018 it was a no brainer. Adam Johnson’s leadership has definitely improved relations and morale, although I still think Bobo is a cancer. But while the dynamics of the job has changed very little, the compensation has increased enough to make it attractive. And other little things that may seem small, like the ability to use all your PTO days as PTO, do make a difference.

Some like the airline terminals, some people like FBO’s. Some people like controlling their own transportation to/from Hotel, some people could care less (it was nice one being fully responsible for your own transportation, Van, Uber, Lyft, just get yourself there).

If I had to narrow it down to one thing, I would say schedule flexibility is the number one differentiator for the airlines, followed closely by medical insurance for Netjets.

There is no right or wrong answer. When you retire, then you will know.

FOLLOW ON…
Had not read your entire post. It seems very clear, as you do not want to move, that Fedex is the perfect job for you if cargo is to your liking. Lots of commercial deadheads, doesn’t take a long time to hold them. Combined with a great company, great pay and great benefits.

hawkerpilot05 06-13-2021 06:38 PM

One thing to consider is that Delta includes there Loss of Medical in their benefits. NetJets does not have this and we currently have it through the union even though it is a benefit renegotiated after so many years as it is only term. There is no mention of ever losing it but it is not guaranteed. A NetJets captain will pay roughly $335 per month out of pocket that you would subtract from the Delta benefits for a more apple to Apple comparison.

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hawkerpilot05 06-23-2021 11:54 AM

I would add though that we pay for LOM with after tax money, so our payments are tax free. For a captain in the higher tier plan, it pays out 100K/year tax free which is nice.

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AirBear 06-27-2021 10:15 AM


Originally Posted by hawkerpilot05 (Post 3253723)
I would add though that we pay for LOM with after tax money, so our payments are tax free. For a captain in the higher tier plan, it pays out 100K/year tax free which is nice.

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I ran out my 3 years of Medical at NJA last year and went on the LOM plan. I wasn't able to upgrade the coverage due to pre-existing conditions so I'm capped at $84K/year. Nothing whatsoever comes out of that monthly deposit. The $300+ a month I paid in premiums was one of the best investments I ever made. It gives me the financial freedom to not have to work. I do mostly volunteer stuff. I could earn up to approx $40K/year without penalty but above that they deduct 84% from my benefit so not worth taking a job that pays more.

GeeWizDriver 06-27-2021 07:10 PM


Originally Posted by AirBear (Post 3255495)
I ran out my 3 years of Medical at NJA last year and went on the LOM plan. I wasn't able to upgrade the coverage due to pre-existing conditions so I'm capped at $84K/year. Nothing whatsoever comes out of that monthly deposit. The $300+ a month I paid in premiums was one of the best investments I ever made. It gives me the financial freedom to not have to work. I do mostly volunteer stuff. I could earn up to approx $40K/year without penalty but above that they deduct 84% from my benefit so not worth taking a job that pays more.

Saw that you fell off the list. Hope you are well amigo and I'm with you on the HW LOM plan...

hawkerpilot05 06-28-2021 01:02 PM


Originally Posted by AirBear (Post 3255495)
I ran out my 3 years of Medical at NJA last year and went on the LOM plan. I wasn't able to upgrade the coverage due to pre-existing conditions so I'm capped at $84K/year. Nothing whatsoever comes out of that monthly deposit. The $300+ a month I paid in premiums was one of the best investments I ever made. It gives me the financial freedom to not have to work. I do mostly volunteer stuff. I could earn up to approx $40K/year without penalty but above that they deduct 84% from my benefit so not worth taking a job that pays more.

That is good to hear. I would never work for an airline that did not offer this. I do wish our plan was mandated in the CBA but the union has done a good job keeping it so far. I never imagined in my 20's that I could lose my medical and how much it could affect me. For myself, it is insurance worth paying for.

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AirBear 06-30-2021 02:54 PM


Originally Posted by GeeWizDriver (Post 3255713)
Saw that you fell off the list. Hope you are well amigo and I'm with you on the HW LOM plan...

Thanks. Enjoying a zero stress life and doing some volunteer dog walking which gets me 4 miles per day exercise. When I see how much the contract has changed pay wise since 2017 I feel some mild regret over opting to go out on medical but when I look at my health numbers I'm doing the best I have in 16 years. That would not have happened if I wasn't able to devote 24/7 to it.

OhioFlyer717 07-22-2021 07:00 PM


Originally Posted by 4thgenaviator (Post 3247375)
Hey everyone,

Happy to see things picking up.

Does anyone have any insight on what life is like at Netjets (7/7, 60, or 52) for family life currently and what it may be like in the future? I’m considering making the jump (currently 121 regional) and would just like some info on how the schedules affect families. I have 3 kids - 4, 2, and 3 months. My wife works, too. I think the predictability of the 7/7 would be great, but 7 days away also seems like a lot. Though I’m sure it’s not worse than reserve at a regional.

Oh, and before it’s asked, I’m not gunning for a major airline job because my family and I don’t want to move. We’re happy where we are with extended family pretty close. I know that if I went to a major, I’d likely be commuting to reserve. No thanks.

TIA for any insights, y’all!


So, I Love the predictability of the 7/7. So does my wife (who also works). It helps us set up day care/ baby sitting when I'm gone. I also Love not commuting. I had an "easy" commute at the regionals but I was constatly fighting mainline guys and having to school them on their own contract and commuting rights. It was stressful and unpleasant. Not having to commute has relieved A LOT of stress in my life.

Yes, you will make more at the airlines. But the money isn't bad at NJA and there is a lot of potential for soft money. (don't look at base salaries on this site.. they are way off from reality...but still probably not as good as legacy).

you will find a groove at the airlines... knowing a typical schedule. but I've talked to a few buddies at United, Delta, and Southwest recently, asking about their life.. they arne't seeing holidays off. Getting about 12-14 days off a month (after 5 years).... so take commuting into factor. loose a day or two here or there.

I'm not sure about legacy. But when I worked at a regional we somtimes had 1 or two days off between trips. Those days are WORTHLESS to a commuter. Might as well be at work.

With all that said. I am actively updating my apps at the legacies just for the hell of it. Money is money after all. And airline flying is easier. But NJA is a good place to work. And if I never get a call from a legacy, I'm pretty damn happy where I'm at.

-5-7 year F.O.


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