Union Dues
03-14-2022, 06:27 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,063
Interesting how my friends at Delta have all changed their Facebook pictures to bring attention to their 100% increase in fatigue calls and resulting service and schedule instability. My friends at Alaska posting similar solidarity photos and are in the middle of a public-facing campaign while in contract talks. Of my two buddies who were very senior at UPS, one of them hated the company and took early retirement.
When it comes down to it, it's all just a job. But the lipstick does make a difference. Choose what you want to do and go from there.
When it comes down to it, it's all just a job. But the lipstick does make a difference. Choose what you want to do and go from there.
03-14-2022, 07:11 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2021
Posts: 172
A job with the best medical insurance in the industry, one that pays very well, and lots of other perks. Just as you said FF, it is indeed just a job. Then you have that small minority who will never be satisfied, or maybe bitter because they couldn’t get hired or got fired. Can things be improved? You bet. NJASAP and management have found a good way to do just that via IBI, vs section six.
03-15-2022, 04:35 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 135
Originally Posted by Pervis
A job with the best medical insurance in the industry, one that pays very well, and lots of other perks. Just as you said FF, it is indeed just a job. Then you have that small minority who will never be satisfied, or maybe bitter because they couldn’t get hired or got fired. Can things be improved? You bet. NJASAP and management have found a good way to do just that via IBI, vs section six.
Here is what we got for agreeing to an 8-year deal.
1. 2-3% annual pay raise
2. FDP starts after 10 flight hours instead of 12.1
3. Signing bonus that hasn't changed in 20 years.
I am not saying that I'm not appreciative of NJASAP. I am saying that we need term limits.
03-16-2022, 03:43 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 1,024
Originally Posted by HeavyD
IBI vs section 6:
Here is what we got for agreeing to an 8-year deal.
1. 2-3% annual pay raise
2. FDP starts after 10 flight hours instead of 12.1
3. Signing bonus that hasn't changed in 20 years.
I am not saying that I'm not appreciative of NJASAP. I am saying that we need term limits.
Here is what we got for agreeing to an 8-year deal.
1. 2-3% annual pay raise
2. FDP starts after 10 flight hours instead of 12.1
3. Signing bonus that hasn't changed in 20 years.
I am not saying that I'm not appreciative of NJASAP. I am saying that we need term limits.
The 2020 contract was guaranteed improvements now for a 3 year contract extention to what had been already extended in 2018. We got a lot of money in improvements for 3 more years.
FDP starts 2.1 hours earlier per tour AND each hour is worth $30 more.
There are lots of other things (beyond the signing bonus) that haven't changed in the last 20 years. I would like lots of other improvements that we haven't seen in this time. That said, the pilots are regularly asked what is most important to them and they regularly prioritize pay over smaller, though important, contractual points. We have grabbed what we could easily get in exchange for relatively small gives in 2018 and 2020 and I have no problems continuing on this path as long as we have reasonable relations with management.
03-16-2022, 07:48 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,063
Some people are just determined to be miserable no matter what. In this hiring environment, those who are miserable and still here, are still here because they are not hirable at other operators (or are too lazy to apply). So unfortunately we're stuck with them, but the good news is they are the small minority of our pilot group.
03-17-2022, 10:13 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Position: Pilot
Posts: 516
NetJets is a really good company, NetJets is a really good career.
I left NetJets a few years ago after a long time there. To be honest, and blunt — two significant problems I was concerned about — that often made work miserable — were fatigue and flying with elderly pilots that no longer had endurance, competency and ability to deal with the long duty days and complex environment.
In my opinion, the union negotiated agreements where pilots are encouraged to “push through” fatigue because of financial motivations.
In my opinion, due to political implications, the elderly pilot issue won’t be touched…even though the problems seem to be obvious and well documented.
Are the airlines any better? Maybe not. Is ALPA any better? Maybe not.
But, fatigue is really not an issue…and the left seat guys are forced out at 65. These were important things for me. My stress is a lot less, but there are many good things about NJA miss.
NJA should be the best job in the industry. Maybe someday, but I think there may need to be a change in union leadership and pilot group sentiment for that to happen…if ever.
I left NetJets a few years ago after a long time there. To be honest, and blunt — two significant problems I was concerned about — that often made work miserable — were fatigue and flying with elderly pilots that no longer had endurance, competency and ability to deal with the long duty days and complex environment.
In my opinion, the union negotiated agreements where pilots are encouraged to “push through” fatigue because of financial motivations.
In my opinion, due to political implications, the elderly pilot issue won’t be touched…even though the problems seem to be obvious and well documented.
Are the airlines any better? Maybe not. Is ALPA any better? Maybe not.
But, fatigue is really not an issue…and the left seat guys are forced out at 65. These were important things for me. My stress is a lot less, but there are many good things about NJA miss.
NJA should be the best job in the industry. Maybe someday, but I think there may need to be a change in union leadership and pilot group sentiment for that to happen…if ever.
03-17-2022, 11:39 AM
#19
Speed, Power, Accuracy
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: PIC
Posts: 1,699
Originally Posted by AntiPeter
NetJets is a really good company, NetJets is a really good career.
I left NetJets a few years ago after a long time there. To be honest, and blunt — two significant problems I was concerned about — that often made work miserable — were fatigue and flying with elderly pilots that no longer had endurance, competency and ability to deal with the long duty days and complex environment.
Them's fightin words to the Shrub. But spot on. He'd tell you that you are just saying "GET OUT OF MY SEAT!" But plenty of us who are already IN the top seats wish there were a mandatory retirement age.
In my opinion, the union negotiated agreements where pilots are encouraged to “push through” fatigue because of financial motivations.
Agree 100%. FDP and VED were created to do more with fewer bodies.
In my opinion, due to political implications, the elderly pilot issue won’t be touched…even though the problems seem to be obvious and well documented.
Officially, the union can't touch the issue for or against. But my sense is the company is finally going to take the legal plunge (wishful thinking, perhaps) primarily because of the BD 7500.
Are the airlines any better? Maybe not. Is ALPA any better? Maybe not.
Seen ALPA, IBEW, IBT, and NJASAP up close in my life. Meh...they do what they do. Generally, not a fan. NJASAP better than most.
But, fatigue is really not an issue…and the left seat guys are forced out at 65. These were important things for me. My stress is a lot less, but there are many good things about NJA miss.
Glad you're not stressed. I've tried to stop caring as much. Leads to less stress too.
NJA should be the best job in the industry. Maybe someday, but I think there may need to be a change in union leadership and pilot group sentiment for that to happen…if ever.
At least the negotiating committee. Totally agree.
I left NetJets a few years ago after a long time there. To be honest, and blunt — two significant problems I was concerned about — that often made work miserable — were fatigue and flying with elderly pilots that no longer had endurance, competency and ability to deal with the long duty days and complex environment.
Them's fightin words to the Shrub. But spot on. He'd tell you that you are just saying "GET OUT OF MY SEAT!" But plenty of us who are already IN the top seats wish there were a mandatory retirement age.
In my opinion, the union negotiated agreements where pilots are encouraged to “push through” fatigue because of financial motivations.
Agree 100%. FDP and VED were created to do more with fewer bodies.
In my opinion, due to political implications, the elderly pilot issue won’t be touched…even though the problems seem to be obvious and well documented.
Officially, the union can't touch the issue for or against. But my sense is the company is finally going to take the legal plunge (wishful thinking, perhaps) primarily because of the BD 7500.
Are the airlines any better? Maybe not. Is ALPA any better? Maybe not.
Seen ALPA, IBEW, IBT, and NJASAP up close in my life. Meh...they do what they do. Generally, not a fan. NJASAP better than most.
But, fatigue is really not an issue…and the left seat guys are forced out at 65. These were important things for me. My stress is a lot less, but there are many good things about NJA miss.
Glad you're not stressed. I've tried to stop caring as much. Leads to less stress too.
NJA should be the best job in the industry. Maybe someday, but I think there may need to be a change in union leadership and pilot group sentiment for that to happen…if ever.
At least the negotiating committee. Totally agree.
03-18-2022, 07:55 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 135
Originally Posted by jtf560
Term limits in NJASAP? Union leadership gets unequivocally high regard on every union sentiment question. You are in the 1 or 2% if you think that is an important thing for our current union leadership.
The 2020 contract was guaranteed improvements now for a 3 year contract extention to what had been already extended in 2018. We got a lot of money in improvements for 3 more years.
FDP starts 2.1 hours earlier per tour AND each hour is worth $30 more.
There are lots of other things (beyond the signing bonus) that haven't changed in the last 20 years. I would like lots of other improvements that we haven't seen in this time. That said, the pilots are regularly asked what is most important to them and they regularly prioritize pay over smaller, though important, contractual points. We have grabbed what we could easily get in exchange for relatively small gives in 2018 and 2020 and I have no problems continuing on this path as long as we have reasonable relations with management.
The 2020 contract was guaranteed improvements now for a 3 year contract extention to what had been already extended in 2018. We got a lot of money in improvements for 3 more years.
FDP starts 2.1 hours earlier per tour AND each hour is worth $30 more.
There are lots of other things (beyond the signing bonus) that haven't changed in the last 20 years. I would like lots of other improvements that we haven't seen in this time. That said, the pilots are regularly asked what is most important to them and they regularly prioritize pay over smaller, though important, contractual points. We have grabbed what we could easily get in exchange for relatively small gives in 2018 and 2020 and I have no problems continuing on this path as long as we have reasonable relations with management.
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