jtf560

Management wants to hire almost 700 next year. That will be a serious issue if those that they just lowered the minimums to attract (thinking that we would offer significantly higher pay than the regionals) almost universally shun NetJets now that the regionals are paying better and still offering a direct pipeline to the legacies. The word about inflated FDP numbers and lack of road quality of life is probably getting out to friends that are trying to decide also. There are only so many pilots at our competition to try to pick off. The company honestly needs a massive infusion of young blood and will hopefully soon need to crank pay and benefits up to make it happen.

I agree that most probably know what they want when they come here, but the reality of the job verses the reality at the majors may shatter some illusions after giving this a try and chatting with classmates that chose a different path. The job here is still best for my personal situation verses starting over somewhere else, but a lot of that is because I've gotten older and built my personal situation around the advantages that this job offers and would have some serious family difficulties if I were to change things up. Someone newer probably won't have had as long to make various life choices that entwine themselves so much with certain schedules and long vacations and will have a much easier time bailing out. I honestly still think about it way more than I should and unless someone really needs to live in a place that would be a horrible commute, I just don't see nearly as much upside working here.

Das Auto

Let's say you're on the fence between NJ and a regional, you're looking at buying your first home and you're researching what you can qualify for mortgage wise. There are debt to income considerations, but in general the lender will allow you a monthly payment of 30% times your monthly guaranteed gross income. At Mesa that would be 75 hours monthly guarantee × $100 an hour = $7,500, × 30% = $2,250 max monthly mortgage payment.

Run the same numbers for NJ at year 1 salary on the 7&7 schedule and you'll qualify for a monthly payment of $1,700.
Can't buy much of a house with that, especially with interest rates where they are right now.
Lenders won't consider soft pay at a new employer so FDP becomes moot.

Just another example as to why base salaries must be increased.

MinRest

I knew several that were hired in 2015, leave for regionals in 2016-2017. It will happen again. Would I leave NJA for a regional? No, but that is my personal opinion. It will for sure happen again as regionals continue to offer DEC, and those pilots wanna go to a major.

These regional rates are simply to attract people who care about hourly. There is so much more that goes into a paycheck that honestly, I really look at hourly last. Hourly isn't what drives your paycheck so much as the work rules does, and regionals don't compare to the majors in that regard, and in some ways probably don't compare to NJA.

MinRest

Base salaries would have increased if the pilot group didn't vote in FDP. Gonna be hard to peel that bandaid off...

jtf560

Management loves incentive based pay. The pilot group is now becoming wary of it after finally realizing that they have 0 control over it (outside of possibly flying broken birds or fatigued for an extra $148 an hour when they shouldn't be flying). It will take 2015 levels of pain (or more) to get big increases in salary alone. I could see big increases with some in salary to at least cover inflation and the rest in duty rigs, FDP improvements, retirement improvements, etc. once management finally believes they have a problem recruiting and retaining enough new pilots.

Honestly, the last 2 contracts wouldn't have happened and many tens of thousands of dollars per year per pilot wouldn't have been made by the pilot group without ratification of contracts with pay for performance. Many of us literally made double or more last year than what we made in 2020. Many will repeat that this year. That wouldn't have been possible if we kept walking away and didn't accept pay for performance. Things look to be changing and we appear to have more leverage now and it is building. I'm hoping for mostly salary increases, but I too have my doubts that that will be the big give.

It looks like the first puzzle piece may have fallen today with your pilot group. It will be interesting to see if Alaska ratifies it and then the rest of the dominoes fall. It looks sort of like what NetJets management will want- better at the beginning to attract new talent and weaker at the senior level. I'm still trying to digest it and determine if it is good for all or another United level flop.

MinRest

It's a really unique time right now. On one hand, all these companies are navigating on how to remain attractive to the small pot of pilots the industry has. All the airlines and fractionals are vying for the same slices of pie. We are also arguably in a recession, and still not fully recovered from the pandemic. Our TA is getting a lot of crap but I think these are emotional reactions to not having retro pay added into the mix, to which I agree. But thinking bigger picture, it is a a huge increase in so many areas. It isn't perfect, but I bet it gets the job done and becomes a CBA. It isn't a TA that is setting any trends but it zaps AS up to industry standard language and scope, with a "me too" clause for pay rates. I am not kicking and screaming in anger, but at the same time I wonder how this will attract pilots over the other airlines.

Das Auto

I'm a fan of the FDP program as a whole, but because of the point you mentioned it is deeply flawed. A new hire has zero control over which fleet he / she is assigned. Get awarded the 350 or the Lattitude right out of training and you're going to earn significantly more than your fellow classmates in the Sovereign or XLS. This is something that needs to be addressed if we want to retain said new hires. I believe those who are on the bad side of this deal are still on probation and worry that raising the BS flag may attract unwanted negative attention.

The solution could be that all new hires receive the daily average of all the fleets they could have been assigned for every day they're on duty until their seat lock expires. That would level the playing field.

cons

No doubt that FDP is fleet dependent. However, if the company wouldn't agree to a base pay increase, then an adjustment to the FDP could be another way to get the company to improve pay. For example, reducing the FDP down to 0 instead of the current 10, and/or increasing the current 147 rate. This would not only increase your take home, but also increase your retirement savings.

jtf560

That is true and I could maybe see the company trying to sell that, but I don't see the pilot group accepting it since it wouldn't fix the fairness part of the equation. The newhires in the Sovereign would get the first 10 hours now, like everyone else, but everyone else would keep earning more and those pilots in the less productive fleets would still be frustrated. I like FDP, but it needs to be fixed to be more fair. Every flight should have at least a one hour minimum of FDP pay and any mid tour travel should pay at least the average FDP for that day. We should also have duty rugs also to make sure that those that get parked on tntv or have long sits between short flights still earn.

GeeWizDriver

The company is playing stall ball because I'm convinced they believe the bubble is about to pop. I'm not sure they're wrong. I'll say again that I think we have missed our window.

CBA improvements or not, there is NO WAY Netjets hires 700 next year. ZERO chance. Either because The Great Recession Part II implodes demand or huge pay increases at the majors and regionals drain the available talent pool completely.