obiden

If you left NJ why do you come back to the threads so often to brag about your new gig? Special kind of loser

tm602

Because he is trying to tell you guys that there is an entire world outside of NJA. You guys keep getting had by both NJASAP and the company. VED, signing bonus, "industry leading" (which is actually industry standard these days) fatigue policy that is the SOLE safety measure in scheduling. The company uses "minumum" and "maximum" as goals, not limits. A union that gives surveys ad nauseum yet when the results are in, and are overwhelmingly showing the need for improvements, its always "you want more $, work more days" or "now is not the time". And you wonder why NJA is bleeding pilots? Many are riding the fence and he is giving them the push they may be looking for. He used to be a NJA cheerleader and I've gone back and forth with him on the MBs arguing about this and that for years when we both worked at NJA. Well, even he got tired of it and so he took the plunge and found out. He is happy at his new job and that is NEVER a bad thing to hear about. Why are you so upset? Sour grapes? Battered Wife Syndrome at NJA? When a NJA fan turns out happier elsewhere, you juuuust might want to listen.

MinRest

There is a common theme amongst former NJA pilots. There is a compelling attraction to come on here and tell others that the grass is actually greener. I actually find it more disturbing that the same NJA cheerleaders keep coming back to APC complaining about the same things for decades and not making a change for themselves.

jtf560

I'm sure many believed that Omaha, or the threat of it would be all we needed. Now many of them are leaving as fast as they can. None of the union leadership said that. NONE. They said it would take time well before Omaha and had many pickets set up through the end of the summer even before Omaha. My guess is that you simply don't read any of the many emails that the union sends out every week that explained all this, or you are just willfully lying. The signs we displayed said the CEO must go. We hoped he would get the boot, but it didn't happen. The union leadership follows the will of the membership and hasn't played anyone. You obviously have issues with the union owning it's own property and that was also polled and the will of the majority was followed.

Your numbers and what you think the leadership is saying we will get is also totally made up. None of them has said we would get 50% raises and/ or 12 hour duty days. I'll clue you in on what the union is trying to achieve for QOL- OT starting earlier and OT when your schedule gets flip flopped many hours. They are not trying to restrict what the company can schedule. They are trying to make scheduling think twice about wasting our time and flip flopping our body clocks, but they are not trying to put up any hard boundaries beyond what we already have. Now you don't have to worry about the airplanes not flying under a new contract. I would worry about the airplanes flying if they don't up the offer significantly. The attrition levels are starting to spike and the natives are getting restless. We are also seeing less pilots accepting extended days and the total number of exteded days accepted is going down. More and more pilots are done helping the company at all. That is not good for metal moving. If you would have attended a union meeting while at recurrent or just asked someone in leadership, you would have heard what they are actually trying to accomplish. I'm sure some whackos believe we will get 50+% and harder duty limits and all kinds of other stuff that the negotiators simply aren't even trying. They are not going for free breakfast and they are not going for new hotel language.

The option of something vs nothing is also not real and has been addressed in union emails and leadership posts on the message board. I am fine applying pressure and hoping for something much better rather than accepting the POS offering. The company is making unbelievable profits that will start paying out to us after next year's profits are determined. Nobody knows how much we will get out of this, but the company wants it all and requires us to give it up so it is worth something. We also have another 16% in raises in what we already have. While what we already have is not enough, I believe we will do much, much better than the company's offer and I don't believe it will take us until section 6 negotiations to get it. I also may get restless and bail out, but I will 100% bail out if we accept the POS we have been offered.

I guess if you have such a problem with leadership, you should step up and start the recall process. It appears you are trying to sow the seeds here, but I doubt you will be successful unless this drags out another year or two. I'll be long gone if that is the case so it won't matter to me anymore.

tm602

Its encouragement. Some choose to be threatened by exposure of their submission to the thumb kept on you there. In some ways, many in the NJA pilot group are like a bucket of crabs. When one tries to climb out, the others try to prevent it.
"You'll get furloughed" (NJA furloughed too, and the pilot market is booming right now....for now). Aviation is a gamble everywhere.
"You're going to be bored". Boring in this business is good.
"I hate FAs". I rather like the cockpit door and having FAs. I fly, I go home. That's it. No ancillaries.
"Egad, a 737/757/Airbus". After the thrill of a new type (and I have plenty of them), its just an airplane.
"I hate terminals". So do I. But being an airline pilot involves just a walk to the plane, strolling between flights, and going to the hotel. I found airlining to be one of the worst parts of working at NJA. But working for the airline means a LOT less time in the back, and when you are, you preboard. No B or E seats.
"You don't get crew food". I'm healthier than I was at NJA and I get to pick what I want, not pressed chicken cartilage with my choice of sauce. Its not 1975 with McDs or Wendys. There are plenty of healthy options.
Now I know there are those that genuinely dig the FBO sitting, new airport every week, and having a stone schedule for up to a year at a time. But I love picking when I go to work, what time, and what cities (and I'm only 15 months into it). 16.5 years at NutJets and I couldn't pick jack schitt except a CC60. PLCS was a bad joke. The hard-on for 0400 at NJA was ridiculous. My first month on reserve was better.
But 121 is not for everyone. And that's the point. We are just trying to dispel the myth of ponies and balloons because of what US Air did 20 years ago. Its different now. Yes it can change at any moment but so can NJA. All I can tell you is that I have 1200 pilots behind me already. I commuted 2 months, which was easy, and now I drive to work with 18 to 19 off a month and while I'm not making $200,000 I'm not terribly far from it and can do that next year, (year 3) as an FO with a little hustle while still getting 15 off monthly. Maybe its painful to hear it for some, but once you get away, you see that aviation can indeed be quite fulfilling and its entirely possible to be treated like a professional on the job. 700 block in the last year and I'm not even mildly tired.
Nobody is rubbing anything at you. We just want to encourage those on the fence that there is life besides NJA. To those who stay, I hope you bleed that turnip hard and get what you deserve. Its about the hardest working civil commercial pilot job there is and y'all deserve better everything from professional treatment to better pay. To those who are questioning....leave. I did at 53 years old and even though at best I'll see the left seat for 4 or 5 years, I have no regret. I may not even take an upgrade because senior FOs can be mighty cozy here. Better yet, go to DAL or UAL and upgrade fast. NJA will always be NJA. If you think you are unhappy now, think how you'll feel in 10 years.

GeeWizDriver

Well said amigo.

HeavyD

I think a lot of people would benefit from reading this. There is a misconception on the road about the QOL changes the union is going after. It’s basically the same group of negotiators we've had since 2005. It's going to be the same result. A few financial penalties to the company for screwball scheduling practices but nothing that would deter them from what already happens. We'll get a pay raise and still have 12-14 hour duty days and 10-12 hour overnights.

NJA can screw with your first and last day at home. My thoughts are if we show before 8:00 a.m. on day 1, you get 4 extra days of pay. If we get an after midnight on the last day, it's 7 extra days of pay. The current financial penalties for NJA doesn't even make them blink. Especially when a VED pays 2.5 and an after midnight pays 3.

FracCracka

An after midnight should be an automatic Q day. After 8pm should trigger the pay

Swedepilut

Omaha was the biggest picket that nobody ever heard of.

MinRest

Literally.

Nobody cared. It got zero attention from anyone outside of NJASAP. The local paper didn't even pick it up. NJASAP thought they were so slick making snide comments about some inflatable alligators showing up. Nobody cared, business as usual, and AJ did exactly what he told you guys he was going to do, he walked away from the table. What can NJASAP do? "We'll try again in Omaha in 2024 of course lol." I haven't been this disappointed in an aviation union in a long time. This is teamsters BS. Just bring out the giant rat from storage and stick it in front of HQ like every teamsters shop in the country. Pilots constantly complain about how management is out of touch, NJASAP is officially out of touch with reality. The same playbook that didn't really work in 2015, isn't working now and won't work in 2029. Hopefully, in 20 years this will be but a black mark on the union like all airlines have in their histories, but holy crap when you watch it in real time it is like watching the Titanic head strait for the iceberg over and over and over.