ClarenceOver

I agree with this post 100%. When i talked to the HR lady i told her that i was in shock that Great Lakes was approved for a split certificate. She asked me why? And i had to make an effort not to laugh. Even though i think this plan is not a good one it seems to me that it may come to fruition none the less.

conquestdz

It was never about landing with one pilot. Little old ladies with zero flight time have done that. It is about having enough combined experience in the cockpit to make good decisions, back each other up when it gets challenging, and to recognize and challenge each other's mistakes.

zondaracer

I can confirm that I know one guy hired with circa 600TT, no instructor certificates. He applied, was called up in a couple days, went to the interview, offered a training class on the spot. I will ask him about details of the training contract.

Aviator89

this. When I first flew a King Air, it took all of about 5 minutes and one attempt at landing for a non-event greaser to occur. and a 30 minute ground session to get all the basic procedures down to keep it safely in one peice.They are not hard to fly, but like conquestdz said, its the deeper understanding of CRM that they dont have which is arguably no better or even worse than having only one pilot.

9kBud

Please expand; I figured it makes our ATP's less valuable because everybody needs one now. That was one thing I had before that a lot of 121 SIC's didn't have.

aviatorhi

While obtaining an ATP is now mandatory, the time and/or money investment to get one is also mandatory. For the next few years anyone with 121 experience, who meets PIC requirements will be worth their weight in gold to the average regional. Furthermore, based on how hard it has been for people who are new to jets in the past to pass the grade on an SIC check, it won't be getting much easier when it's a PIC check with the FAA in the back.

block30

Yes, this.

.....

l2flare

Ya pretty much, it's a temporary boost to those that have the certificate. Just like the age 65 rule, this will halt movement (in this case out of flight instructor to regional) until the industry catches up.

Officially I say I don't like it because just like selling scope for raises, and what not, it gives the "haves" a better opportunity while punishing those below us. That being said I don't think 1500 hrs is an unreasonable requirement to fly 121, you miss quite a lot by not CFI'ing and duking it out in 135 for a couple of years.

So basically I'm contradicting myself. But overall if it helps fix the regionals just a little then it is well worth it.

Cubdriver

You're only adding to my argument a split ticket is not safe. But it is indeed one of the duties of a qualified first officer to be able to take over the aircraft in the event of PIC incapacitation. It happens rarely, perhaps once every few of years, but there have even been fatal crashes stemming from SIC inability to perform single pilot IFR in an airliner when things were dicey up front.

All that is fine, but I actually was just pondering what the argument by Great Lakes made to the FAA for this particular scenario. You have a (121) non-qualified first officer working with a 121-qualified captain. This implies the ship reverts to Part 135 standards exactly when things are going south on the flight deck. It's a bad idea on its face, and why so much has been done in the past to prevent mix-and-match from happening.

Perhaps the way to see this split ticket idea is not as a genuine split ticket, but as a full reversion to Part 135 rules for both seats on some flights with a 121 captain thrown in. That would make sense, and it can't hurt to have a 121 captain even if the flight is conducted by 135 rules. I still doubt that Lakes has this alleged split ticket though, it doesn't sound safe by 121 standards.

To the comment that anyone can anyone can handle a Beech 1900 on a bad day, that's silly. Lakes has had a high washout rate, some say as much as 50% for years, with an equally high washout rate for upgrade training. That's not a great success rate even during good times. They also use primitive flight decks with heavy dependence on situational awareness by the pilots.

tom11011

I think maybe what they are doing is not what you think.

They probably have split their airplanes where some have 9 seats and some have 19 seats.

The Captain can fly either of those airplanes, under 121 rules or under 135 rules.

An FO without the hours is only an FO in the airplanes with 9 seats. The airplanes with 19 seats have a fully qualified 121 FO.

This has to be it.