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Information on Avenge King Air ISR flying

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Information on Avenge King Air ISR flying

Old 08-25-2017, 12:25 PM
  #11  
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OH, let me see where to start.

Took the job in 2014. Was told $625/day.

After I quit my job, the "contract changed" and "Everyone is taking massive pay cuts".. Yeah.. I was now making $450/day deployed as a King Air 300/350 PIC. And guys hired before date X took maybe a $30/day cut. Total B Scale Move.

Then they decided to not deploy me for MONTHS. Sitting at home. NO income. Unable to leave, because, well, lawsuits.

Finally rotate. Was supposed to be a 90 day. At day 57 I was told I was going home TOMORROW. So the extra month I was going to use to unscrew my finances, yep. Nope.

At day 55 off, they told me my rotation was pushed back a week. And a week later, another week. finally went back to work after 87 days off. After only working 57 in the previous five months.

Then they tried the "you need to do X before next rotation" (aka get me on the hook for training contract).

I left after one year. Before I got hired, I had an email from Tom Gallucio, their HR manager. I asked specifically what would be the case if I hit one year, and didn't have 180 deployed. Was told in the email that as long as you were available, you would be off the hook after one year.

I left after 13 months and 154 days deployed. I grossed maybe 69k in over a year there. When I was supposed to be making $110 or so.

I leave and go to L3.

Then they sue me for my TBA.

I provided the emails to the court. Court let me go.

After getting hired by L3, I get put onto the MARSS Contract, as a Subcontractor for CACI. (I worked MAISR and VADER at Avenge).

I then get sued for violating an "Implied Non Compete". For well north of 1/4 million. Keep in mind, I was a line pilot. Non management.

After spending a metric butt ton in lawyers, I beat them in court again. They were ordered to pay my legal costs. I'm still waiting. (TG, I know you are eventually gonna see this)

Oh, and they tried to jack with my clearance too.

RUN. FAR. AWAY.

Great pilot group 2014 era.

HORRIBLE Management.

Used to be a great place to work. If my choices were there and regionals, Air Wiz would be getting a call tomorrow.
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Old 08-25-2017, 12:30 PM
  #12  
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To put things in perspective.. Between making far less than offered, and having to take a second mortgage out on my house to pay lawyers, I'm at 2.5 years in with L3, and I'm just now almost back to where I was financially pre Avenge.

Two and a half years. Working OCONUS. For good pay.

Just to get where I was Pre-Avenge.

And that wasn't anything crazy. That was just no credit card debt, no second mortgage on my house, and more than $3000 in the bank when I go back to work.
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Old 08-26-2017, 05:35 AM
  #13  
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Bump for effect.


Originally Posted by E2CMaster View Post
OH, let me see where to start.

Took the job in 2014. Was told $625/day.

After I quit my job, the "contract changed" and "Everyone is taking massive pay cuts".. Yeah.. I was now making $450/day deployed as a King Air 300/350 PIC. And guys hired before date X took maybe a $30/day cut. Total B Scale Move.

Then they decided to not deploy me for MONTHS. Sitting at home. NO income. Unable to leave, because, well, lawsuits.

Finally rotate. Was supposed to be a 90 day. At day 57 I was told I was going home TOMORROW. So the extra month I was going to use to unscrew my finances, yep. Nope.

At day 55 off, they told me my rotation was pushed back a week. And a week later, another week. finally went back to work after 87 days off. After only working 57 in the previous five months.

Then they tried the "you need to do X before next rotation" (aka get me on the hook for training contract).

I left after one year. Before I got hired, I had an email from Tom Gallucio, their HR manager. I asked specifically what would be the case if I hit one year, and didn't have 180 deployed. Was told in the email that as long as you were available, you would be off the hook after one year.

I left after 13 months and 154 days deployed. I grossed maybe 69k in over a year there. When I was supposed to be making $110 or so.

I leave and go to L3.

Then they sue me for my TBA.

I provided the emails to the court. Court let me go.

After getting hired by L3, I get put onto the MARSS Contract, as a Subcontractor for CACI. (I worked MAISR and VADER at Avenge).

I then get sued for violating an "Implied Non Compete". For well north of 1/4 million. Keep in mind, I was a line pilot. Non management.

After spending a metric butt ton in lawyers, I beat them in court again. They were ordered to pay my legal costs. I'm still waiting. (TG, I know you are eventually gonna see this)

Oh, and they tried to jack with my clearance too.

RUN. FAR. AWAY.

Great pilot group 2014 era.

HORRIBLE Management.

Used to be a great place to work. If my choices were there and regionals, Air Wiz would be getting a call tomorrow.
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Old 08-27-2017, 04:15 PM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by E2CMaster View Post
OH, let me see where to start.

Took the job in 2014. Was told $625/day.

After I quit my job, the "contract changed" and "Everyone is taking massive pay cuts".. Yeah.. I was now making $450/day deployed as a King Air 300/350 PIC. And guys hired before date X took maybe a $30/day cut. Total B Scale Move.

Then they decided to not deploy me for MONTHS. Sitting at home. NO income. Unable to leave, because, well, lawsuits.

Finally rotate. Was supposed to be a 90 day. At day 57 I was told I was going home TOMORROW. So the extra month I was going to use to unscrew my finances, yep. Nope.

At day 55 off, they told me my rotation was pushed back a week. And a week later, another week. finally went back to work after 87 days off. After only working 57 in the previous five months.

Then they tried the "you need to do X before next rotation" (aka get me on the hook for training contract).

I left after one year. Before I got hired, I had an email from Tom Gallucio, their HR manager. I asked specifically what would be the case if I hit one year, and didn't have 180 deployed. Was told in the email that as long as you were available, you would be off the hook after one year.

I left after 13 months and 154 days deployed. I grossed maybe 69k in over a year there. When I was supposed to be making $110 or so.

I leave and go to L3.

Then they sue me for my TBA.

I provided the emails to the court. Court let me go.

After getting hired by L3, I get put onto the MARSS Contract, as a Subcontractor for CACI. (I worked MAISR and VADER at Avenge).

I then get sued for violating an "Implied Non Compete". For well north of 1/4 million. Keep in mind, I was a line pilot. Non management.

After spending a metric butt ton in lawyers, I beat them in court again. They were ordered to pay my legal costs. I'm still waiting. (TG, I know you are eventually gonna see this)

Oh, and they tried to jack with my clearance too.

RUN. FAR. AWAY.

Great pilot group 2014 era.

HORRIBLE Management.

Used to be a great place to work. If my choices were there and regionals, Air Wiz would be getting a call tomorrow.

How's your time been at L3? I'm interested in their SIC program. I am a Marine vet (enlisted E5) 2010-2014. I had a clearance before, would L3 help reinstate the clearance? What flight times are they looking for?
Thank you!
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Old 08-27-2017, 05:52 PM
  #15  
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L3, while not sunshine and rainbows every day hasn't been a bad place to be.


Biggest pluses:
Stable Contract (by contractor standards anyways)
Pay is average for industry
Benefits are OK if you need them (I use Tricare Reserve)

Biggest Minuses:
It's basically a regional airline with ****ty bases from a size standpoint. As a result, management is occasionally out of touch with the reality on the ground.
401k match is bad both in amount (4%) and vesting schedule.
3rd circle of hell Coach for really long international legs.
If you go to one of the few "nice" det sites, you may be living in a hotel, but you also take a 35% pay cut. And no, you don't get to choose where you go.

Dealers Choice
If you are hired at the right time of year, you will NEVER work Christmas or Thanksgiving, and manning will always be fat when you are working. Or, it could be the total opposite.

I know some will argue about the 401k because compared to Avenge it is better, but the industry as a whole has **** tier 401k plans.
There is no B fund contribution from the company.

When I was at BakerHughes, I got:
6% 401k match. Instant Vest.
4% "Pension" 3 year vest prorated per month. (think B fund)
20% discount on company stock

L3 is
4% Match
No B fund
25/50/100 1/2/3 years vesting
10% Stock Plan (I think.. Its not 20 though)

Now as far as the SIC program, it's a financially better choice than a regional. But keep in mind, you will be getting SIC time, in a plane that's normally single piloted. It's legal to log because the USAF requires two pilots, but I have been asked about my ~800 hours of King Air SIC time at an interview.
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Old 08-28-2017, 03:37 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by E2CMaster View Post
L3, while not sunshine and rainbows every day hasn't been a bad place to be.


Biggest pluses:
Stable Contract (by contractor standards anyways)
Pay is average for industry
Benefits are OK if you need them (I use Tricare Reserve)

Biggest Minuses:
It's basically a regional airline with ****ty bases from a size standpoint. As a result, management is occasionally out of touch with the reality on the ground.
401k match is bad both in amount (4%) and vesting schedule.
3rd circle of hell Coach for really long international legs.
If you go to one of the few "nice" det sites, you may be living in a hotel, but you also take a 35% pay cut. And no, you don't get to choose where you go.

Dealers Choice
If you are hired at the right time of year, you will NEVER work Christmas or Thanksgiving, and manning will always be fat when you are working. Or, it could be the total opposite.

I know some will argue about the 401k because compared to Avenge it is better, but the industry as a whole has **** tier 401k plans.
There is no B fund contribution from the company.

When I was at BakerHughes, I got:
6% 401k match. Instant Vest.
4% "Pension" 3 year vest prorated per month. (think B fund)
20% discount on company stock

L3 is
4% Match
No B fund
25/50/100 1/2/3 years vesting
10% Stock Plan (I think.. Its not 20 though)

Now as far as the SIC program, it's a financially better choice than a regional. But keep in mind, you will be getting SIC time, in a plane that's normally single piloted. It's legal to log because the USAF requires two pilots, but I have been asked about my ~800 hours of King Air SIC time at an interview.
Thanks for the quick response!

It is definitely something I will be applying for. I've always wanted to fly military but after doing 4 years in the Marines I can't bring myself to commit to a 8-10 year pilot contract and see that this is the next best thing.

There's people out there logging SIC time in Caravans and PC-12s moving to the airlines, I see SIC time in a King Air as a step above and gaining that valuable multi turbine time.

How much flying do you do during the 90 day cycles?

I saw for their job posting online their mins are 1000TT do you know if there's any flexibility with that? How long does the application process take? That way I could apply now before 1000 and start there when I hit 1000.

From what I understand, the day rates vary based on location? What are the average pay rates you've seen?

Sorry for all the questions, there's not much info about ISR flying out there.

Thank you!
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Old 08-28-2017, 03:48 AM
  #17  
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Wow, I'm not sure flying for the Marines sounds that bad?? Of course, that's just the view from this foxhole.

Thanks for the candid reply, E2C. I know there's a lot of folks I've flown with that share your experience. I hadn't heard of the Implied non-compete before, that's creative. Good that you handed them the business end of the hammer on that one.

Good luck to all.... sounds like I can go back whenever the wife decides she's tired of looking at my silly mug, hearing Alaska stories around the fire pit.

Fly Safe!
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Old 08-28-2017, 04:45 AM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by Rcordeiro122592 View Post
Thanks for the quick response!

It is definitely something I will be applying for. I've always wanted to fly military but after doing 4 years in the Marines I can't bring myself to commit to a 8-10 year pilot contract and see that this is the next best thing.

There's people out there logging SIC time in Caravans and PC-12s moving to the airlines, I see SIC time in a King Air as a step above and gaining that valuable multi turbine time.

How much flying do you do during the 90 day cycles?

I saw for their job posting online their mins are 1000TT do you know if there's any flexibility with that? How long does the application process take? That way I could apply now before 1000 and start there when I hit 1000.

From what I understand, the day rates vary based on location? What are the average pay rates you've seen?

Sorry for all the questions, there's not much info about ISR flying out there.

Thank you!
As an SIC, expect to fly 100-120 hours a month when deployed once trained. Training may be less due to IP availability. For most guys, if you do 6 months deployed a year, you are looking at the 600-700 range if you don't extend on rotations.

Baseline rotation is 60 on 60 off. Depending on manning they often ask for volunteers to stay longer, but the extra time comes off of your time off. I've flown 850 in a year before, but we were really short manned and I did 3 75 day rotations that year.

The pay is basically an hourly rate. That is somewhat standardized but the company freaks out if it gets published. (Like I would get a talking to, at a minimum)

But to figure your pay:
CONUS Training / Travel = 8 hours at hourly rate
"Bad Places" (the usual spots) = 12 hours plus 35% Hazard and 35% Hardship.. So 12 hours times 1.7 times your hourly rate. That's the ballpark Hazard/Hardship but it does vary by particular country. That's set by the State Department and beyond our control.

Nice places = 12 hours plus 35% Hazard. So 1.35 times your hourly rate.

Application process, is no basically Regional Airline Style. Apply. Wait for call. Then do a skype interview. Then get called in for a panel interview. Then fly the sim. Then wait.

It used to be "Hey I'm the Chief Pilot for Program X. You want a job"

That's how I was hired. It's not that way anymore.
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Old 08-28-2017, 07:18 AM
  #19  
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Base pay was $37.66/hr for pilot 3. Worked out to be $768.24ish for bad places.

Many new pilot 3s are being offered $680/day in the bad places if L3 has to get them an updated clearance etc.

Vested pilot 3 (180 days BOG down range) are $800/day in the bad Places

Pilot 2 are $500/day in the bad places.

There are advanced quals that pay $810/day and IP pays $850/day in the bad places.

Someone ambitious enough can do the math to reverse engineer the hourly rates.
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Old 08-28-2017, 09:33 AM
  #20  
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Pilot 2 = SIC
Pilot 3 = PIC
Pilot 4 = IP, Scheduler, Maintenance Pilot, couple other cats and dogs.
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