Free to apply, sure. But I wouldn’t attempt it at 300 unless I did have an inside track. Honestly, not much in the bank left to get my multi with at the moment. I understand the tough schedule, but if the 70-90k for the EMB and 90-120k for the SAAB is accurate, I would take it. And I’m not looking to go to the airlines. Maybe UPS in the future. But if there is an opening when I get to 500 I will definitely apply to Berry. I’m a Texas boy, and I want to stay in the DFW area.

I wouldn’t apply at 300 unless I had an inside track who told me explicitly, “apply!” And I don’t have much left in the bank to get my multi either, so CFI it is. I should have a check ride in the next week or so.
If I were able to get on with Berry, I would be around for the long haul, I feel. I know it’s a tough schedule, and the work is hard, but I am no stranger to that. I have no desire to go to the airlines. Maybe UPS later on, but much later.

Berry isn't exactly "DFW area". When you get to 500, I would recommend Ameriflight. We have charter E120s and will soon have SAAB 340, both based out of DFW. You won't see the pay rates you mentioned as an FO. But we do have a lead in program with UPS that several folks have taken advantage of.

Ameriflight is also on my list!

Hey Sir, stop poaching. Haha!!

DTO is about as DFW as it can get.


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On this same token, really?

I’m sorry but the day of the freight dog is dead. POI’s are Retiring, crews are moving on to bigger and better things. Why be on call 24hrs a day, when you could have a home based deal, or better, without loading your own cargo.


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Everybody has a reason and they vary. If you feel the need to tell others what they SHOULD be doing, go look in a mirror.

Interesting side note on Multi-time. I've talked to some on the part 91 side and insurance requirements which are the pseudo regulatory "agency" of aviation have made it tough to get into. One Cessna 414 position required 50 hours in type and another job wanted 250 multi minimum. Pretty good chunk of change. I was told Warren Buffet and his insurance companies are behind a lot of it but who knows. I could see a practical effect of retired airline pilots being in the best position to benefit especially those who took an early retirement at the beginning of COVID.

How to Get the Interview
 

I have applied for the first officer positions on Denton and Canton. I currently have roughly 800TT , 126 ME time with over a hundred ME Turbine (80 of that PIC) in a King Air 90. I have CFII as well and cannot get a call back. I have reached out several times and just get a response that my information is being reviewed. How long does the process usually take?

I am not sure how many applications they are sorting through or how long it takes, but I would say you are competitive so try to give it a little time.

Retired airline pilots jumping at the change to glob onto on-call 24/7 jobs in light piston aircraft? A few maybe. Out of sheer boredom. And a desire to recapture their youth (when pilots actually spend a few years gaining experience flying freight, etc, before going to an airline.

A requirement for a few, paltry hours of multi time (250 hours multi is not very much) to satisfy insurance isn't new, nor is it a large burden.

Insurance isn't a "regulatory agency," but it does cost money and what it will and won't cover are strong influences in who will or will not be qualified to be considered for employment. It's been that way for a long, long time. Employers can choose how much they want to pay: inexperienced pilots can be hired, but will cost an employer more. If an employer can do better and pay less, the employer probably will.

Conversely, I've seen employers, quite a few of them, that won't hire experienced pilots, but want the bare minimum of experience; the employer pays peanuts, flies junk aircraft with less than stellar schedules, and knows that low-time pilots are more likely to put up with it, and also to stick around to get their hours logged.

Being on call around the clock isn't illegal, so long as being on call allows for legal rest prior to responding for duty. If, for example, an employer requires the employee to answer the phone 24/7, but then gives the employer 12 hours to take the flight after the call, the employee has prospective rest, and is legal.

Being on a phone-tether 24/7 with a few minutes notice to respond, is not legal, and is well-established in FAA Chief Legal Counsel letters of interpretation. It's not a gray area.

As for "freight dogs" being "dead," not remotely so.

According to the guy a few posts up, the FAA doesn't care to enforce it

You would still need 30 in 168

Just Curious…
 

How many hours on average would an FO gain in a year?? I’m only asking because Berry seems pretty attractive as a low time gig for somebody looking to grind it out before the airlines. I know it’s an on-call schedule as well so the hours can vary. For context. I’m a low time guy ready to hit the ground running so I’ll probably hear the usual “just get a CFI job”. Mainly trying to compare this to another outfit to make a better decision on what to do.

There is no straight forward answer for this due to various factors, the economy being the biggest influence. Today's answer will be ~600 to 800~. Tomorrow's answer may be less than 500. I flew 800 hours in my first 12 months. It also depends on how many weekends you work (required to work 1 every 4 weeks). If you're willing and able to pick up weekends, that will increase your overall flight time and decrease hours if you prefer to give up your assigned weekends. My answer today would be that it's a good place to grind out some hours to 1,500 and move on. Tomorrow, it may not. As long as you're willing to accept the potential that anything can happen, and you could be stuck there longer than desired (like any aviation job), Berry will give you quality flight time.

Yea that’s completely understandable but compared to other 135 jobs that do hire “low time” pilots they seem very attractive. The pay is definitely unmatched and they even fly to some destinations in Canada and Mexico. Like i said I’m already aware of the QOL and that it can be demanding but the pay kinda balances the labor aspect of it. Also being able to gain a type rating and fly the aircraft unlike other companies that fly single pilot aircraft such as a PC-12, or a caravan or even some non-turbine aircraft like a stationair for parachute ops i feel like it opens more doors.

Just to clarify your expectation, as an FO you don't get a true type rating; you get one that is limited to SIC duties only. Most companies (airlines) do not consider this a type rating for application or resumé purposes. Of course, stick around to accept an upgrade and you'll receive a full type rating without restrictions.

I honestly didn’t know that. I thought once a person got typed that was it but because they weren’t captain they couldn’t log PIC. But even if you only have SIC duties, because the Berry fleet requires 2 crew members they can still gain some crew experience and skills handling a turbine aircraft and swapping responsibilities like PF and PM

It all depends on how the type rating training/checking/application (IACRA) had been completed. If I recall correctly, for domestic operations, a type rating isn't even required for the FO but international ops require the SIC to have a "type rating". It's easier, quicker and above all, cheaper, to provide a SIC type rating only for FO's.

As far as the line flying goes, duties are shared and (mostly) equal between the crew. PM vs PF duties are typically alternated every leg and you will gain experience working in a 2-crew environment which will help later when transitioning to 121 ops.

I saw a listing recently for an SIC that says no relocation required and that applicants can use their current home of record. How does that work? Are you still on call 24hrs with a set amount of time to get to your airplane, or do they airline you to a base and then you do your five day rotation from there?

I saw that too, very curious what they mean. Have you called them yet?

I do not have any real info for you but I’ll take a guess. It’s likely a way to increase applications and essentially be a home based pilot. Expect them to airline you to a base (or elsewhere if needed to meet a plane) on Monday and then an airline ticket home Friday night or Saturday if Friday turned to poo poo. I would also expect the possibility of being asked to airline out Sunday evening if they have a trip booked on Monday and there would not be enough time to get your 10hrs rest prior to starting the trip.

Hiring Requirements
 

Does anyone know if the 25 Multi hours is the bare minimum? I have more than the minimum total time and was just curious. Also could anyone explain the way on call M-F works? Are you chained to your house for that long or just a set time each day that you're on call? Thanks for any of the help!

Yes. If you have an internal recommendation then possible to go lower, but still not likely. 25 is pretty standard everywhere.

As mentioned before (I answered this question on page 7, does nobody look back anymore?), it is 24hr on call starting 6am Monday morning and they own your butt until 6am Saturday morning* without having to pay you weekend pay. If you're already at home on a Friday, you could be released as early as noon. If out on the road, an airline ticket could get you home anywhere between 6pm and midnight. If you get a revenue trip that ends at home, all bets are off and you may not get home until Saturday morning.
*You are required to work every 4th weekend and you do get the Monday off before that on-call weekend.

You are not chained to your house, per se, but they do expect a 30min response time to the airplane if needed. Advance notification vs. immediate call out is probably a 50/50 split. Advance notice could be anywhere from 1 hour to a few hours. Same rules apply while you're on the road. Group Messaging between the crews and your own self-tracking of airplanes can help alleviate some of the unknowns. If there's no airplane where you are, you're not gonna get a "go-now" call (unless it is to the airport for an airline ticket, which does happen on occasion).

Ok. Yeah I read through the whole thread but I asked the question because I didn't fully understand the on-call part. From my perspective, it seemed like in order to be able to show up in to the airport within 30 min, you would need to live close to base and be at home. Like I guess I didn't understand if its 2:00am on a Tuesday and I'm sleeping, I would need to make sure I heard the phone and got decent rest beforehand somehow and still made it to the airplane in time? That's the part that's still fuzzy to me. I guess I understand tracking the aircraft to see the possibility of being called helps and being in group chats but I just haven't worked in that type of environment before and it sounded interesting. Thanks for the info.

I exceed their minimums...not by much but never get a reply. Are they hiring? Or I just don't cut it? I'm a R-ATP at 1250+.

The only relevant minimums for any job vacancy are the competitive minimums. Those are the numbers from the other appliicants. If the company advertises a minimum of 1200 hours and a high school diploma, and everyone else shows up with 15,000 hours, time in type, and a masters degree, guess what you need to compete?

Published minimums are only what you need to apply.

What does R-ATP even mean? You have your Restricted ATP, Or you just have 1250 hours? An ATP is not required for this particular operation so it’s irrelevant to mention.

R-ATP means restricted ATP. And I have just over 1250 hours but I see what you mean and I was merely mentioning I met my R-ATP mins of 1250.

yeah I get that. There is always someone with a more attractive resume and qualifications. I got a long way to go.

There's always someone more qualified. That doesn't mean they applied for the same job as you.

You'll always have the same thing to overcome, no matter how far you go, or how many decades you do this. Trust me.

That doesn't mean that you won't get the job by applying now. The point was that if you're asking why you didn't get a call, because you meet the minimums, then you're asking the wrong question. Apply.

In today's environment, those who have higher qualifications to be competitive for other jobs, will be looking for those other jobs; they won't e applying to places that you are presently. Your competition for any given job will often be people who are in roughly the same experience range as you...for the types of jobs for which you'll apply. Just remember that when asking why you don't get called to an interview, there are no guarantees, and meeting the published minimums doesn't mean anything other than you're able to apply. Don't let it sock you in in the gut of deflate your sails if you don't get a call....keep applying, and keep applying everywhere.

I see a lot of complaints by those who say they've had a few interviews, and can't understand why they cant' get hired. My response is wait until you've had a hundred interviews, and if you still can't get hired, then check back. A few applicaitons or a few interviews, is nothing...it's not even scratching the surface. Scratch the surface. Scratch it deep. You'll get a call.

You missed the point I was attempting to make but thank you for explaining to me what the “R“ stands for.
If Berry has not called you back, don’t be too upset.
Unless you already live in one of their bases (or want to live there), you’re better off looking for a regional still hiring FOs and apply there.

Ha, sorry man. Wasn't trying to insult your intelligence but I see what you meant. I agree, working on regional applications mainly.

Yeah, this is why 24/7 on call is illegal. You need 10 hours of rest before accepting a duty period.

Rest? What's that? haha... When it's busy, it can be quite fatiguing, absolutely. You will get called at 2am and every other hour of the day possible and it is expected that you hear your phone and answer it (or at least return the call promptly should you be occupied like taking a shower or otherwise). You won't have "decent" rest when you get called unexpectedly while in a dead sleep. You also won't get decent rest when you get a trip at 10pm after being up all day. It's kind of on you to sort these things out and nap in the day if there is a chance at getting called.

It is interesting and good flying, but hard to keep up longer than 2 years. Most get burnt out after just one year. But summertime is typically slow so it's possible to have a little bit of a reset before the winter busy season.

Yep, we've been over this. The FAA and all the POIs who work with these operators know of the practice and do not stop it. I'm not saying that makes it right, but if you choose to work at Berry, or any other operator like this, you will have to accept it to remain employed. You get a 10 hour "rest opportunity" where you are free from all duty prior to being called. What one does with these 10 hours is up to them. That 10 hours can very well turn into 15 or 24 or hell even 4 days but you will not get a call within 10 hours of ending a trip.

Again, being on call 24/7 is not illegal. Rest is required prospectively, and if that's built into the callout, then being on call around is not illegal.

Free from all duty is the key part of the reg you are missing.

You are not free from duty if you’re required to answer your phone and don’t have the ability to deny a trip without repercussion, and have to be at the airplane in 30 minutes. Also, rest must be prospectively scheduled.

This is specifically addressed here: https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/Data/interps/2015/Orellana_2015_Legal_Interpretation.pdf

This isn’t 2009. Pilots shouldn’t put up with this crap with literally everyone else hiring.

You’re right. Which is why it is becoming increasingly difficult to keep pilots once they reach 1500 hours. With enough pressure, change will come. The question, however, is how long that will take.