dera

I can not stress this enough: READ THE REGS YOURSELF.
Do not believe a word your company tells you, especially in 135 world. There are so many shady operators out there.

You are a professional pilot, you should know the rules better than what the company training program requires, which is the bare minimum.

Here's a discussion you DO NOT WANT TO HAVE:

Hi, welcome to this legacy airline interview.

<10 minutes of soft, warm and fuzzy chat>

So, we went through your logbook and we saw you've flown 11 hours a day a few times during your time at Scare Air EAS Airlines?

"Yes, but the company said it's fine because it was only 91 legs"

Ok, did you know you were in violation of 135.265/267?

"No, company said it's fine"

So you did not bother to look it up yourself before accepting that duty time?

"Company told me 91 doesn't count"

Ok, don't call us, we'll call you. Please leave the coffee on the table and don't take any more cookies on the way out.

thedud

Unfortunately what the last poster said is very true. Some of these companies could care less about you. All they want are numbers to a very slim bottom line. “There’s always another pilot” That’s a quote from a prior employer of mine. Dirtbag

galaxy flyer

The FAA General Counsel has weighed in many times on these issues.

Start here, but there are pages of opinions in the past. The OGC is the authority in these matters.

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...rpretation.pdf

GF

Javichu

No more cookies ☹️


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

dera

In the UK they call these "tea but no biscuits" meetings.

point432

The flight time and the duty time most certainly count. You can exceed flight time with a 91 repo as long as it can be done safely. The 91 leg(s) must follow the 135 leg(s). This can be seen in the Legal Interpretation Slater. At my last company it counted, so we go extra rest without question. And if you need more...just ask as long as it reasonable. I'd like to see them fly single pilot for 8 hours plus and tell me they're not tired. I will say you need to add up all the flight time. If you're scheduled 135 you should be getting 11 hrs max (if i'm reading that correct.) Unscheduled you get 16 hours off max.

You are doing duty time all wrong my friend. Don't go into rest until your job is done. Because if someone tells you that duty ends when the engine shuts down...I would grab my stuff and just walk to my car. 30 mins after shutdown is pretty acceptable. Now, I have been told by certain people that duty time doesn't matter because its not black and white. It counts and most people around the country count it.

Below is my rant:

If this company wants to string you along and run you tired till you stroke out, do your civil duty and post about them. Or post in their thread. They're always going to get guys interested. But its going to be a revolving door that leads to nowhere. Nobody will recommend friends going there.

Rolling rest/continuous duty and this topic are probably the hottest in the 135 world I think. Oh and "what can I log?" questions. Interpretation letters, blog articles from respected groups, forums. You will always find these scumbags that bend these rules and think the letters don't matter. They will frequently use sayings like, "I've been working/flying 135 for _____ years." Or..."I remember when..." You'll know you're really ready to quit when you hear a customer say, "I used to be a manager of a 135."
"Oh man! I bet you were just $&%#ing people over since the 70s, am I right?!"

Safe Travels

cactusmike

What the other guys have said is correct. Don’t bust your duty times. Required rest starts when all duty for the company has been completed. In Airlines with labor contracts that’s usually 15 minutes after block in or up to 45 minutes for international flights.

Single pilot, you have stuff to do so add that in and when you walk through the fbo door then your off duty rest starts.

The other big issue I see from the perspective of someone who worked on an ALPA airsafety and aeromedical committee is that you are working a really long day with multiple legs right through your window of circadian low. In plain English that means you are flying when your body thinks it should be sleeping. My work was geared torward minimizing fatiguing pairings, we would monitor monthly company generated pairings and get them to toss the worst ones, like multiple legs and takeoffs after 4 am home base time if you have flown a previous leg that duty period.

By flying a long back of the clock schedule you are running yourself into sleep debt every night. You are not getting the quality rest you need to recharge yourself. 14 1/2 hours a night for more that a couple of nights in a row is setting yourself up for going into a micro sleep event (look it up) while you are flying an approach.

Being presumably young and motivated to fly can mitigate this somewhat but over a long period this will drop away as accumulated fatigue sets in. And your days off will be spent as a zombie trying to recover.

Please take this as advice from someone who did what you did many years ago. Don’t let them push you this hard. It’s not worth it.

Brokensquawk

Called local FSDO, anonymously got one answer. Let it accidentally slip that I had talked to the feds while putting my foot down with Dispatch RE redicilous duty time and unrealistic flight planning (calling it 7 but when you count t/o landing, and WIND it was closer to 10).

Holy cow it was like the world exploded. Chief pilot leaving angry voicemails, and I was required to talk to THEIR rep. Who gave a completely opposite answer (18 or 20 hr duty day is just FINE).

What took the cake was when I flew through that icing sigmet and landed, needed de-icing for t/o and they refused to pay for it. On a “live leg.” Becaus I was going to be late anyway, and I needed to find a hanger and do it myself. I ended up begging and pleading my way into a hanger at the FBO (who totally went above and BEYOND.) and scraped 4” snow and 1/4” clear ice off the plane by hand.

Will drop names as soon as I’m out of there. Just over 100hrs to go until I’m eligible for Republic’s flight time initiative.

PS: FedEx DC10 driver heard my climbout instructions (rwy heading to 5) while he was on final. “Freight Dog 208, icing is REAL BAD between 4 and 6, I would request lower.” Heard ya; Thank you. If by chance you read this, I owe you the best beer that a freight dog can afford.

Brokensquawk

I had called FAA anonymously to get clarification/guidance. Said basically what you guys have said. 8hrs + requires extra rest, duty day 14 hrs (16hr max) because of rest requirements.

While standing my ground re a rediculous trip, I let it slip that I had called the FAA for guidance and what they had told me. I get a furious voicemail from the chief pilot demanding I “prove my case” to their POI. Met with their POI, and she basically said that duty time actually doesn’t matter, that you can go 20hrs and it’s perfectly legal rest before “doesnt matter, you just have to be given a rest period after the trip.” I kept my best poker face while trying not to laugh/scream at her circular logic.

What really took the cake was the same day as the meeting, I got sent back and forth through an icing sigmet. I take on clear ice behind the boots, make it to my next pickup point on time, and in the 30 min I’m on the ground I pick up 4” of snow on top of my ice. I call company for permission to de-ice, they refuse to pay for it (too expensive- mind you it would cost about the same as a single fill up on empty tanks of JET A). I end up begging and pleading my way into a hanger and manually de-icing the plane with a ladder, broom and scraper over the next 2 hrs. Really showed me where I stand with the company.

Just over 100hrs to go until I can go 121.

mojo6911

She's right. Duty time doesn't matter. I've had to manually deice. It sucks. Remember, you are the gatekeeper.