Cirrus Aviation has Immediate Openings
11-19-2019, 10:07 AM
#71
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 14
[QUOTE=woods;2925916]First, our staffing plan is to have 3.5 pilots per aircraft. If you do the math and do it right you will see there are a lot of extra days each year for vacation, sick days, training etc. The plan is funded and that's what we are hiring to.
So you have a plan... please tell me how much vacation time your pilots get right now? How much sick time do they accrue? OR are these benefits only available once you get to the 3.5 pilots per aircraft? Until then, the beatings will continue until moral improves.
Seems like there is a lack of response on training on days off. Please clear up if your pilots are training on their days off. Which I believe is a violation of the FLSA (Fair Labor Standards Act).
It sounds like until you reach 3.5 pilots per AC, the pilots don’t get standard benefits and are expected to work for minimum days off and are even required to work on their days off.
This plan sounds flawed..... work for subpar or no benefits until you get fully staffed, then we’ll treat you right... but we can’t get 3.5 pilots because we treat our pilots below industry standards and/or in violation of labor laws. = Revolving door = never fully staffed = no vacation and paid training = unhappy pilots = revolving door...
I’m not even going to get into the 80th percentile quote.... but when I look, I don’t see it.
So you have a plan... please tell me how much vacation time your pilots get right now? How much sick time do they accrue? OR are these benefits only available once you get to the 3.5 pilots per aircraft? Until then, the beatings will continue until moral improves.
Seems like there is a lack of response on training on days off. Please clear up if your pilots are training on their days off. Which I believe is a violation of the FLSA (Fair Labor Standards Act).
It sounds like until you reach 3.5 pilots per AC, the pilots don’t get standard benefits and are expected to work for minimum days off and are even required to work on their days off.
This plan sounds flawed..... work for subpar or no benefits until you get fully staffed, then we’ll treat you right... but we can’t get 3.5 pilots because we treat our pilots below industry standards and/or in violation of labor laws. = Revolving door = never fully staffed = no vacation and paid training = unhappy pilots = revolving door...
I’m not even going to get into the 80th percentile quote.... but when I look, I don’t see it.
11-19-2019, 10:21 AM
#72
New Hire
Joined APC: Oct 2019
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by LLWS09R
Hummmmmmm.....Where to begin
1. You plan on having 3.5 pilots per aircraft.
-I planned on being a billionaire by this age in my life too. Plan vs reality in a pilot shortage market can be two different numbers.
2. If pilots like building hotels points then this place is not for those pilots. Well you just cleaned HR desk of applications pretty quickly.
3. Pay raises reviewed Annually..... I’ll review you right now. Nope I will keep the money. Most respectable companies have set pay with this type of chartering.
4. I’m not sure your a reasonable person/s but I’ll give you a pass on this one.
5. A salesman is making the dispatch reliability call????? If this isn’t a oxymoron I don’t know what is. I’m sure safetys number 1 priority behind his 3-5% commission for selling a flight. This makes me seriously wonder. A lost client ( Broken airplane)can affect a sales person bottom line pretty drastically a $50,000 aircraft charter = to a sales man 1,500-2,500... would you want to lose that kind of money over a pilot crying about severe icing? And believe me the sales rep will be meeting with the general manager and accountants quickly to show all this lost company revenue. AKA his lost commission.
6. Of course the hotels can’t just be booked on Hilton.com we have to use hotels.com. Apparently it takes a PHD to book a room.
7. Also why were pilots abusing the credit cards? Many Fortune 500 company issue credit cards to employees. Those who abuse it get fired. Issuing credit cards to traveling employees is not some radical new concept. A quick company handbook explaining the do and don’t sum up the corporate policy. Those who choose not to adhere to the policy usually find themselves standing at the unemployment line.
1. You plan on having 3.5 pilots per aircraft.
-I planned on being a billionaire by this age in my life too. Plan vs reality in a pilot shortage market can be two different numbers.
2. If pilots like building hotels points then this place is not for those pilots. Well you just cleaned HR desk of applications pretty quickly.
3. Pay raises reviewed Annually..... I’ll review you right now. Nope I will keep the money. Most respectable companies have set pay with this type of chartering.
4. I’m not sure your a reasonable person/s but I’ll give you a pass on this one.
5. A salesman is making the dispatch reliability call????? If this isn’t a oxymoron I don’t know what is. I’m sure safetys number 1 priority behind his 3-5% commission for selling a flight. This makes me seriously wonder. A lost client ( Broken airplane)can affect a sales person bottom line pretty drastically a $50,000 aircraft charter = to a sales man 1,500-2,500... would you want to lose that kind of money over a pilot crying about severe icing? And believe me the sales rep will be meeting with the general manager and accountants quickly to show all this lost company revenue. AKA his lost commission.
6. Of course the hotels can’t just be booked on Hilton.com we have to use hotels.com. Apparently it takes a PHD to book a room.
7. Also why were pilots abusing the credit cards? Many Fortune 500 company issue credit cards to employees. Those who abuse it get fired. Issuing credit cards to traveling employees is not some radical new concept. A quick company handbook explaining the do and don’t sum up the corporate policy. Those who choose not to adhere to the policy usually find themselves standing at the unemployment line.
2. If hotel points will drive your decision then that fine.
3. We have published pay scales and adjust the scales annually.
4. Thanks your so kind.
5. Nothing you state here is true. You make wild and incorrect assumptions about how our company is structured and run. Our people are trained to that level to increase competency and understanding which we do across the company. We believe in increasing competency so our team ask good questions, get in front of issue before they occur, make intelligent decisions and offer smart suggestions on how to improve. Operational control is tightly controlled as it should be.
6. Thank you for your sage advice. No one hotel brand is in all the locations we visit, nor are they always the best choice for the crew and the mission.
7. I wish I knew why people abuse privileges, but some do and yes they get fired. We issue company credit cards. We issue a lot of them and people use them. We haven't had issue for a long time however the controls that are in place are there because of what happened in the past. That generally how restrictions and policies come to be.
11-19-2019, 10:24 AM
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Position: 175 CA
Posts: 1,285
Originally Posted by woods
Actually, yes. Some of our pilots wanted to try to collect credit card points so wanted to pay on their cards. Thank you for pointing out a situation where we can't win. We are either the bad guy for stealing credit card points or the bad guy for making pilots pay on personal cards.
11-19-2019, 01:18 PM
#75
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2018
Position: Line holder
Posts: 513
Originally Posted by woods
Actually, yes. Some of our pilots wanted to try to collect credit card points so wanted to pay on their cards. Thank you for pointing out a situation where we can't win. We are either the bad guy for stealing credit card points or the bad guy for making pilots pay on personal cards.
Wow. Just...wow.
And to think, not one other company in this industry has figured this out either. Poor you!
Why not try another line of work?
11-19-2019, 07:03 PM
#76
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 162
Originally Posted by woods
1. Well I'm sorry to hear you're not good at executing your plans. We are.
2. If hotel points will drive your decision then that fine.
3. We have published pay scales and adjust the scales annually.
4. Thanks your so kind.
5. Nothing you state here is true. You make wild and incorrect assumptions about how our company is structured and run. Our people are trained to that level to increase competency and understanding which we do across the company. We believe in increasing competency so our team ask good questions, get in front of issue before they occur, make intelligent decisions and offer smart suggestions on how to improve. Operational control is tightly controlled as it should be.
6. Thank you for your sage advice. No one hotel brand is in all the locations we visit, nor are they always the best choice for the crew and the mission.
7. I wish I knew why people abuse privileges, but some do and yes they get fired. We issue company credit cards. We issue a lot of them and people use them. We haven't had issue for a long time however the controls that are in place are there because of what happened in the past. That generally how restrictions and policies come to be.
2. If hotel points will drive your decision then that fine.
3. We have published pay scales and adjust the scales annually.
4. Thanks your so kind.
5. Nothing you state here is true. You make wild and incorrect assumptions about how our company is structured and run. Our people are trained to that level to increase competency and understanding which we do across the company. We believe in increasing competency so our team ask good questions, get in front of issue before they occur, make intelligent decisions and offer smart suggestions on how to improve. Operational control is tightly controlled as it should be.
6. Thank you for your sage advice. No one hotel brand is in all the locations we visit, nor are they always the best choice for the crew and the mission.
7. I wish I knew why people abuse privileges, but some do and yes they get fired. We issue company credit cards. We issue a lot of them and people use them. We haven't had issue for a long time however the controls that are in place are there because of what happened in the past. That generally how restrictions and policies come to be.
Believe me I didn’t get to this point in my career over night. You will find out which Part 135 carriers are skinny dipping when the tide goes out.
11-19-2019, 07:06 PM
#77
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 162
Originally Posted by Camel Dancer
I am more interested in learning how they have delegated their operational control to their sales leader and what their POI says about it.
11-22-2019, 07:52 PM
#78
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 14
[QUOTE=Cavok1;2926426]
Crickets...... I have to guess that no one has the guts to post why giving your employees no vacation/sick benefits and why training on your days off is a great system. Strange..
Originally Posted by woods
First, our staffing plan is to have 3.5 pilots per aircraft. If you do the math and do it right you will see there are a lot of extra days each year for vacation, sick days, training etc. The plan is funded and that's what we are hiring to.
So you have a plan... please tell me how much vacation time your pilots get right now? How much sick time do they accrue? OR are these benefits only available once you get to the 3.5 pilots per aircraft? Until then, the beatings will continue until moral improves.
Seems like there is a lack of response on training on days off. Please clear up if your pilots are training on their days off. Which I believe is a violation of the FLSA (Fair Labor Standards Act).
It sounds like until you reach 3.5 pilots per AC, the pilots don’t get standard benefits and are expected to work for minimum days off and are even required to work on their days off.
This plan sounds flawed..... work for subpar or no benefits until you get fully staffed, then we’ll treat you right... but we can’t get 3.5 pilots because we treat our pilots below industry standards and/or in violation of labor laws. = Revolving door = never fully staffed = no vacation and paid training = unhappy pilots = revolving door...
I’m not even going to get into the 80th percentile quote.... but when I look, I don’t see it.
So you have a plan... please tell me how much vacation time your pilots get right now? How much sick time do they accrue? OR are these benefits only available once you get to the 3.5 pilots per aircraft? Until then, the beatings will continue until moral improves.
Seems like there is a lack of response on training on days off. Please clear up if your pilots are training on their days off. Which I believe is a violation of the FLSA (Fair Labor Standards Act).
It sounds like until you reach 3.5 pilots per AC, the pilots don’t get standard benefits and are expected to work for minimum days off and are even required to work on their days off.
This plan sounds flawed..... work for subpar or no benefits until you get fully staffed, then we’ll treat you right... but we can’t get 3.5 pilots because we treat our pilots below industry standards and/or in violation of labor laws. = Revolving door = never fully staffed = no vacation and paid training = unhappy pilots = revolving door...
I’m not even going to get into the 80th percentile quote.... but when I look, I don’t see it.
Crickets...... I have to guess that no one has the guts to post why giving your employees no vacation/sick benefits and why training on your days off is a great system. Strange..
11-23-2019, 12:57 PM
#79
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 162
[QUOTE=Cavok1;2928742]
Crickets...... I have to guess that no one has the guts to post why giving your employees no vacation/sick benefits and why training on your days off is a great system. Strange..
They know they have been exposed. There best way of winning this battle is to let this thread get buried and just lie to new pilots that don’t any better. They will just put their job description on the orange site. Which is not a legal binding contract only a general estimate of benefits. Which can and will be taken away at the signing of the training contract. Woods do you have anything to add???
Originally Posted by Cavok1
Crickets...... I have to guess that no one has the guts to post why giving your employees no vacation/sick benefits and why training on your days off is a great system. Strange..
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