Originally Posted by Fr8Thrust

The solution is simple: places like AMF need to incentivize their workforce to want to stay. QOL, schedules, benefits, and pay are far lacking compared to today’s regional offering. It’s not the pilots fault that they left, it’s AMF fault for not being able to retain. Pilots will stay to become PIC only if you offer them good trips, a CBA, schedule/trip trades, non-rev/ZED pass travel, and a glimmer of hope that a legacy airline will even look at them. But as long as the equipment is antiquated, the layovers are embarrassing, and the schedule is crap nobody in their right mind is going to stay.

Originally Posted by TeamSasquatch

135 cargo Is not as hard as you make it sound.

Originally Posted by JohnBurke

Did that sound hard to you? I didn't make it sound hard.

Then again, I've done a lot of it, as with a lot of other things in aviation, from hauling bleeding patients off dirt muddy airstrips lit by flarepots at night to chasing bad people at night in the dark, to to thunderstorm penetration atmospheric research to flying down burning canyons in severe turbulence, and frankly, there's nothing more demand and potentially dangerous than single pilot IFR in weather.

As I'm sure you know.

Originally Posted by MaxMar

For context, an Op Spec is approval from the FAA to do something under 135 or 121. For example, even though under 135 there's no limitation on what types of approaches can be flown, without the specific, appropriate Op Spec for a given type (e.g. ILS, VOR with DME arc, VOR without DME arc, etc) then the operator is forbidden from performing it. Another way of thinking of it: under part 91, the rules are a list of things you can't do. Under part 135 or 121, the rules are a much shorter list of things that you can do.

Previously under Part 135, SICs could only log time under specific circumstances, either a. the flight was operated under IFR and the operator did not elect to use Op Spec A015 which allows them to use an autopilot in lieu of the required SIC (135.101 and 135.105), or b. the operator was required by law (Op Spec or GOM) to have an acting SIC on 135 flights, therefore making them required crew and opening up loggable time or c. the airplane required two pilots in the first place.

The new ruling formalizes part b into what they are calling a 'SIC Pilot Development Program', which will be allowed via, you guessed it, an Op Spec. Once an operator attains this Op Spec from the FAA, there is no longer a requirement for a 'minimum crew', the person sitting in the right seat is under no obligation to have a legally defensible 'required crewmember' designation, but as long as the rules as defined in the Op Spec are followed, that SIC time is perfectly legal. This extends, for the first time, to part 91 re-positioning legs which can happen frequently in the passenger 135 world. Since these flights are operated under 91, they need not follow the restrictions of 135 or other Op Specs, which means on single pilot airplanes an SIC will never be required. With this new ruling, SICs could log SIC time when conducting a 91 repo leg so long as the conditions in the PDP Op Spec are followed.

Example: A night freight operation that runs Caravans under 135 VFR and IFR can now hire pilots to fly and log time from the right seat to build time towards being a Captain there as well as towards ATP minimums, where previously these types of operations didn't do this because there's no incentive to; prior to this rule, an SIC wouldn't be required since there's no passengers and while a safety advantage may or may not be present, no one really cares about how many pilots are up front when the only thing in the back is boxes (in the 135 world).

This ruling also helps remove any doubt from Caravan and Pilatus 135 right seaters who typically have to sling gear without logging time on 91 legs, and some are suspect of any SIC time at all, even though there is a strong argument that it can be logged if the appropriate documents are accepted by the FAA.

Clear as mud, ya?

For your question about whether the flight time is legal for the regionals, simply ask during the interview or even before for the location, in writing, in their GOM or Op Spec where a SIC is required crew. If they can't provide that, or they give an answer like 'It's company policy / it's in the SOP / it's an insurance requirement' none of those answers will yield legal time. Only an Op Spec or GOM carry regulatory weight and thus you need to see it in writing in one of those documents.

Originally Posted by TeamSasquatch

You sir are a bad ass!

I guess I should have said, “don’t make it sound so dangerous, 135 cargo is not as dangerous as you make it sound”

Originally Posted by TeamSasquatch

AMF isn’t in a tough spot... They cash big checks from UPS every day. But, you are on the right track. Perks and pay are all it takes.

Originally Posted by Jetlife

...they don't want to put the work into changing the culture.

Originally Posted by MaxMar

The FAA has released a final ruling to create a SIC Professional Development Program that operators may choose to participate in via Op Spec, allowing SICs to log all the flight time towards new certificates and ratings.

Beginning on page 30240, here's some excerpts

"The FAA proposed to revise § 61.159(c)(1) to contain the requirements for logging SIC pilot time in an operation conducted under part 135 that does not require an SIC by type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is being conducted."

"...the FAA is revising proposed § 61.159(c) to allow pilots to credit time logged under a SIC PDP not only for total time as a pilot, but also toward the specific flight time requirements for ATP certification set forth in § 61.159(a)(1) through (4) (e.g., cross-country flight time, night flight time, flight time in class of airplane, and instrument flight time). "

" the FAA maintains in the final rule that a SIC logging flight time under § 61.159(c) is not permitted to log this flight time as PIC time even when he or she is the sole manipulator of the controls"

" the FAA has decided to also allow SIC flight time to be logged during part 91 flight operations (e.g., re-positioning flights) conducted for the certificate holder when the operation is conducted in accordance with the certificate holder’s operations specification for the SIC PDP."

"Therefore, in the final rule, the amendments to §§ 61.39, 61.51(e) and (f), 61.159(a) and (c), 61.161, and 135.99(c) will be effective 150 days after publication of this final rule"

Originally the SIC PDP would apply only to multi engine aircraft, but thanks to several contributors (including my company, Tradewind Aviation!) single engine turbine aircraft are included.

Link to the Ruling

Originally Posted by chrisaviator

Do you know if this applies to Part 91 operations solely? Example: My father in law owns a PC12 (Part 91 only) which he currently flies with 2 pilots due to insurance.
If he were to hire me, would this PDP apply to me and could i log that SIC team?

Originally Posted by MaxMar

For context, an Op Spec is approval from the FAA to do something under 135 or 121. For example, even though under 135 there's no limitation on what types of approaches can be flown, without the specific, appropriate Op Spec for a given type (e.g. ILS, VOR with DME arc, VOR without DME arc, etc) then the operator is forbidden from performing it. Another way of thinking of it: under part 91, the rules are a list of things you can't do. Under part 135 or 121, the rules are a much shorter list of things that you can do.

Previously under Part 135, SICs could only log time under specific circumstances, either a. the flight was operated under IFR and the operator did not elect to use Op Spec A015 which allows them to use an autopilot in lieu of the required SIC (135.101 and 135.105), or b. the operator was required by law (Op Spec or GOM) to have an acting SIC on 135 flights, therefore making them required crew and opening up loggable time or c. the airplane required two pilots in the first place.

The new ruling formalizes part b into what they are calling a 'SIC Pilot Development Program', which will be allowed via, you guessed it, an Op Spec. Once an operator attains this Op Spec from the FAA, there is no longer a requirement for a 'minimum crew', the person sitting in the right seat is under no obligation to have a legally defensible 'required crewmember' designation, but as long as the rules as defined in the Op Spec are followed, that SIC time is perfectly legal. This extends, for the first time, to part 91 re-positioning legs which can happen frequently in the passenger 135 world. Since these flights are operated under 91, they need not follow the restrictions of 135 or other Op Specs, which means on single pilot airplanes an SIC will never be required. With this new ruling, SICs could log SIC time when conducting a 91 repo leg so long as the conditions in the PDP Op Spec are followed.

Example: A night freight operation that runs Caravans under 135 VFR and IFR can now hire pilots to fly and log time from the right seat to build time towards being a Captain there as well as towards ATP minimums, where previously these types of operations didn't do this because there's no incentive to; prior to this rule, an SIC wouldn't be required since there's no passengers and while a safety advantage may or may not be present, no one really cares about how many pilots are up front when the only thing in the back is boxes (in the 135 world).

This ruling also helps remove any doubt from Caravan and Pilatus 135 right seaters who typically have to sling gear without logging time on 91 legs, and some are suspect of any SIC time at all, even though there is a strong argument that it can be logged if the appropriate documents are accepted by the FAA.

Clear as mud, ya?

For your question about whether the flight time is legal for the regionals, simply ask during the interview or even before for the location, in writing, in their GOM or Op Spec where a SIC is required crew. If they can't provide that, or they give an answer like 'It's company policy / it's in the SOP / it's an insurance requirement' none of those answers will yield legal time. Only an Op Spec or GOM carry regulatory weight and thus you need to see it in writing in one of those documents.