MacrossJet

This place sounds like a unicorn, what's the name of the company?

Joebob21

Boutique air

MacrossJet

They hiring FO's again?

Joebob21

They were just recently. We have always been very FO heavy. If you’re close to part 135 captain mins, I’d advise you just wait then apply as a captain. Pay nearly triples, contract is shorter, and cheaper.

dera

You're at Boutique?
Pay better than the regionals? Oh come on. An average regional FO makes more than Boutique PIC. And last I checked, you still need 1000 hours of King Air time, just like the regional guys need 1000 hours of 121 time, to upgrade.

Joebob21

My base is 60K, picking up an extra shift here and there for 2.5X pay and I’m breaking 85K this year. I’ll need 1000 King air time for 121, you’re right. There are 135 options out there with 3-12 month PIC upgrade flying jets making 100K++. Jetsuite X, XOJET, FlexJet, NETJETs etc. It’s always seems that people feel they have to justify why they did what they did. My path may not be better for your particular situation or goals, but the reason I even bring it up is because a lot of us may not know the option is available. I hope for all of our sake that we upgrade quick, make twice what we expected and don’t have to commute.

gump1

I am also a Boutique PIC and can confirm the pay. The normal rotation is a couple legs, overnight at an outstation, a couple legs the next day then home. I started as an SIC and upgraded at 135 PIC mins. No crash pads, no airport reserves.

Doink1

The travel benefits argument is my favorite. As if getting paid a substantially higher wage and buying an airline ticket wasn’t an option.🤪

ThomasMagnum

“Substantially” thats funny

Crockrocket95

As someone who slugged it out in a few 135 companies, while many of my peers went the 121 regional route to build time I have a pretty good understanding of the cons and minuses of both sides. I got into the game around 2008, so there was a 1-2 year period there when we were all clamoring for jobs, some of us lost ours on both the 91/91K/135 and 121 side. The regionals were paying extremely low wages. For me, I was not entirely sure where I wanted to end up 10-15-20 years down the road. At the time the airline pay wasn't as spectacular a it is now,(major 121) and the regionals had guys pulling in 22K on a good year. That wasn't appealing at all. I opted for the 135 route, where the pay was a little better, as a small jet FO I was making somewhere in the 40K range. Which seemed like a great deal compared to the low pay of the regionals. In addition, many of the regionals were basing guys in LGA/EWR/DTW which had no appeal to me at the time. I thought I was doing the better thing chasing the money early on.

Fast forward 10 years, and all my friends who had gone the regional 121 route and stuck with it were being hired by the majors, or even some LCCs, also many of my friends who went 135/91 were making similar jumps to LCCs and some to Major airlines as well. The guys who had gone the 121 route had loads of more time than every one of the 135 guys I knew. They were making similar pay as regional captains to many 135 captains and had a much better control over their schedule.

My first 135 we were on a 12 on 2 off schedule. almost NO flexibility with regards to getting off time other than a few days of PTO and 7 days of Vacation that had to be approved. We had no protection from management regarding our job security or even if a passenger disliked us or if we did something. Turnover was high due to compensation, and QOL reasons. That seems to be the case for many 135 companies. Home basing wasn't really a thing until the status qo forced many companies into rotational style schedules to accommodate that. Raises were not annual as they advertised but at the discretion of the CP/DO/HR. Eventually, the low compensation and the fact that management refused to change anything that considered the pilots QOL nearly 80 percent turnover in 5 years was a testament to that. Most of us voted with our feet -

I made a lateral jump to another 135 in hopes of chasing some more money. Again- in 135 (most) the only way to make more is to work in management or take a bigger airplane. So I chased that idea. After a few years of making small amounts more, and continually fighting for raises (COLA and well just more money) it just wore on me. I made a jump and got hired at a decent 121. No more arguing for yearly raises. Also retirement. 121 blows away all the 135s and most 91s I have seen. So theres that.

PROS to 135 (91)-
Usually cool destinations.. (Although the 2000th TEB/OPF/ASE does get old as well)
Rental cars
Better per diem or a company card
Expense almost anything related to work
Hotels usually where you want them.
Fly with the same people often
Interact with passengers on a more personal level

Cons to 135
Little control over schedule. (you can swap if someone wants to swap but thats not often)
ON CALL when on the road.
Interact with passengers (millions of stories of PAX complaints)
Fly with the same people (depends on the person)
Pay is behind the times , and often you have to fight to get raises
Retirement is lacking
Incredible amount of work for international and high demand clients
No protection from management
Lakcing in STD/LTD protection LOL/D etc unless you pay for a third party.
Like a box of chocolates - never know what you are going to get.
Lack of SOPs standardization in many places. (not all)
Sit for days on the road waiting for a trip...



Im sure the list goes on and on. For those of you that really enjoy 135, it can be a good job. I had a good time with a ton of fun people. But as I aged a bit, it became more important for me to be protected by STD/LTD have good retirement, etc. And the retirement, compensation and benefits don't really come close to the end game of a major 121. And I guess that is my final takeaway from my 135 life, I had a better time on the road, but fun times didn't pay the bills for that new house or spouse.
As far as the flying is boring argument, well if its boring its only because you do more of it and to a more standardized level in 121.

I think 135 can be a fine means to an end, its just hard to imagine it as a career unless compensation and retirement get bumped way up.