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Do not leave the Air Force for AMF
Originally Posted by Mox Nix
(Post 1656093)
I attended the Ameriflight Open House in DFW this past weekend. Started with a basic presentation about the company from the pilot recruiter, followed by some good open discussion among all those present. The discussion wasn’t really a formal Q&A, it was more casual/social conversation as people filtered in and out, got a cup of coffee, etc. Around mid-morning the Dallas ACP showed up and contributed to the informative side conversations.
The CP held one-on-one discussions in a separate room for those who wanted to interview. During my meeting, I kind of felt like it wasn’t so much him interviewing me, as it was me asking him more details about the company and what it’s like to work there. He didn’t ask me much because he felt I was well-qualified based on my background & experience. Not to re-ignite the debate about “whether Ameriflight is a good company to work for”, I’ll give some thoughts below. Personally, I feel that just about any company or organization has its ups and downs, its good and bad points, good people and not-so-good people to work with and work for. One person’s idea of “a good company” may be completely different than another’s, and it’s primarily based on your expectations and personal goals, and the attitude you bring to the job. That said, here’s my take-aways from the Open House – from the perspective of an experienced AF guy getting ready to transition out of the military: The company prides itself on their niche in the industry... both in the service they provide, and the career opportunities they offer to the pilots they hire. On the first point, they like to boast that they’re the largest FAR 135 cargo operation in the country, and that they have a 97% dispatch reliability rate. One side discussion was about how Ameriflight won a contract after having orignally lost the bid to another carrier... the other carrier didn’t meet the customer’s expectations of delivering the goods on time, so the company came back to Ameriflight and awarded them the contract after all – because of the value of the service they provide. As for the second point above, the career opportunities, they recognize that they are a step in the career ladder – in fact they advertise themselves that way, as a place to build PIC turbine time before you move on to another company, bigger equipment, etc... whatever your personal goals happen to be. They’re happy to help you get there, and they tout the fact that your single-pilot PIC experience will be valuable to you as an aviator because of the seasoning and decision-making experience you’ll get...compared to someone who starts out as a regional FO at the 500 hour mark then spends years as SIC with little decision-making authority. And from a different angle, an experienced guy like me transitioning out of the military, I also like the opportunity to jump right in to a PIC position. Most jobs out there, part 121 or corporate/fractional, would require starting out as an FO. Even with the pay and benefits of a legacy (if I’m lucky enough to even get called out of the 8-10 thousand applications they have on file), I’m not sure I want to be stuck as an FO for the forseeable future. So I see Ameriflight as an opportunity to break into the civilian/FAR 135 world as PIC, and see where life leads me next... perhaps into a 135 corporate or fractional job, or perhaps other possibilities I don’t even know about yet. I’m sure there will be good networking opportunities, and in general I think it will be good exposure to the civilian world after all my military experience. I’ve told a few AF co-workers that there’s opportunities out there that most of us don’t even know about because we’re not exposed to it during our military experience. The mind-set seems to be “do your AF time then go to the majors... or the regionals while you’re waiting for the majors to call”. So here’s a different path to explore to see what else might be out there. I left the Air Force for familiar/personal reasons and I'll retgreat it everyday. First of all, I should not leave the AF. Second If you really want/need to do it, AMF is not the best way to go. As a military you should know better than any other on this forum that a recruiter can sell you and tell you everything you'll want to hear. If you had been flying in the AF you should already have your turbine PIC time and not need to do more. You just need to build some experience in the civilian world, which is what I did. You may not see all the down sides of AMF until you don't leave to go somewhere else. Once inside you better do, what you are told because otherwise they'll prevent you from being hired in other places. Recruiters know each other and that's what happens to me. If you want to go for a Job at a major you could go: AF reserve, go for a regional job, so that you get familiar with the part 121 world and when the time comes you'll have an interview in a major. Than maybe you can leave the AF. If you want a corporate job, a CRJ type rating may help you more than a turbine PIC time in a BE99 where you are the capt of yourself. The turbine PIC time that maters is when you upgrade from FO to Capt. and your are the PIC of a crew. As I said the recruiter will tell you whatever in order to have you on board but the reality is made of an horrible schedule, rude people to work with, old planes with steam gauges, an overall experience that is not worthed your time. My suggest for you is DON'T leave the AF but if you do it, don't do it for AMF. I should also be careful to leave the AF for a corporate job because they may not last as much as a good stable job in the AF can be. |
Mox Nix, AMF is one of the better operators, that being said there is so much Kool Aid in your post, I don't know where to begin. AMF is good at 2 things, moving freight, and creating positive spin. It is a good place to get some time and get out, however if a 121 major is your end goal, don't even bother. If you really want to go freight, you can do better, and you can do worse, if you want to get to a major, go to a regional, and spend a little bit of time there.
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Originally Posted by Jetlife
(Post 1656707)
Mox Nix, AMF is one of the better operators, that being said there is so much Kool Aid in your post, I don't know where to begin.
You're right in that most of my post was from their presentation. Call it PR, propaganda, koolaid, or whatever... that was the info they were passing along in their recruiting pitch. My last paragraph was more personal musing about where this opportunity might lead if I were to fly for AMF. I still like the idea of building more time as PIC while I'm looking/waiting for other options. I like the pay rates (Metro or 1900, the CP said he considered me qualified for those aircraft) compared to what a regional FO position would pay. And I'm not locked into the idea of making it to a major... I think that's the main point of my ramblings, going against the grain of the idea that you have to "do your time at a regional then go to a major." I'm avoiding the regionals for the very simple reason of their pay rates. There's been plenty of discussion all over these forums about regional starting pay, and it boils down to the fact that as long as people keep applying to work for those rates, that's what they'll keep paying. So I won't participate in that game, I'm not going to work for peanuts. Perhaps the "shortage" at those entry-level positions might start pushing the pay rates upwards, who knows. But that's a whole 'nother discussion. I'm still exploring options, and I'm ok with starting as an FO - there's corporate/fractional/charter operators with reasonable starting pay, and something like that may present other opportunities as well. |
Just to specify about the pay.
AMF doesn't pay per diem, a regional does. At AMF I was making less than 1900$ A month after taxes and before Heath insurance and 401K. In a regional, because of the per diem, I'm making more than 2300-2400$ a month. After one year at AMF the pay raise is about one dollar per hour, basically you maintain the same low pay. In a regional you go from an average of 22$ an hour to an average of 30-35$ an hour, so the pay raise is significant. Of course regionals are different and you won't be rich in any case but I should do my research. You are absolutely right the the companies are playing at paying the pilots lower and lower, that's what AMF does and if you go for it your are doing exactly that. In the regional world because of that 10k pilots have just voted down the new contract because they want to be paid and treated better and that's the only time in the aviation industry when the management needs pilot. Said that, if AMF offers a turbine PIC position in a part 135 company they should also pay a turbine PIC salary. In this very website you'll find that a part 135 capt makes an average of 50-90K in a part 135 corporate, at AMF you'll make 25K. They give you a PIC job but they'll pay you less than a SIC. You can find this numbers on this very same website! As I sad, recruiters will tell you whatever you want to hear but I have my pay checks in my hands and they don't lie. Finally, what's the point to fly as a PIC at AMF to go for a SIC job after that? |
Originally Posted by kimba
(Post 1656817)
Just to specify about the pay.
AMF doesn't pay per diem, a regional does. At AMF I was making less than 1900$ A month after taxes and before Heath insurance and 401K. In a regional, because of the per diem, I'm making more than 2300-2400$ a month. After one year at AMF the pay raise is about one dollar per hour, basically you maintain the same low pay. In a regional you go from an average of 22$ an hour to an average of 30-35$ an hour, so the pay raise is significant. Of course regionals are different and you won't be rich in any case but I should do my research. You are absolutely right the the companies are playing at paying the pilots lower and lower, that's what AMF does and if you go for it your are doing exactly that. In the regional world because of that 10k pilots have just voted down the new contract because they want to be paid and treated better and that's the only time in the aviation industry when the management needs pilot. Said that, if AMF offers a turbine PIC position in a part 135 company they should also pay a turbine PIC salary. In this very website you'll find that a part 135 capt makes an average of 50-90K in a part 135 corporate, at AMF you'll make 25K. They give you a PIC job but they'll pay you less than a SIC. You can find this numbers on this very same website! As I sad, recruiters will tell you whatever you want to hear but I have my pay checks in my hands and they don't lie. Finally, what's the point to fly as a PIC at AMF to go for a SIC job after that? It's obvious you don't understand the importance of Turbine PIC, but without it you can't even apply to some of the legacy/major carriers. I would rather build 1000 TPIC at AMF, even if it's not as important as it used to be, then go log 121 jet SIC time. Contrary to your belief, it will put your résumé on top of those without it. At least at AMF you know you'll get to 1000 TPIC in a reasonable time verses a regional. Wouldn't you like to be able to check that box? |
Originally Posted by Gjn290
(Post 1657037)
Kimba, you're starting to sound like a broken record.
It's obvious you don't understand the importance of Turbine PIC, but without it you can't even apply to some of the legacy/major carriers. I would rather build 1000 TPIC at AMF, even if it's not as important as it used to be, then go log 121 jet SIC time. Contrary to your belief, it will put your résumé on top of those without it. At least at AMF you know you'll get to 1000 TPIC in a reasonable time verses a regional. Wouldn't you like to be able to check that box? |
Originally Posted by ClarenceOver
(Post 1657046)
People have different goals. I have no desire to get 1000 turbine pic. Not everybody is deadset and starry eyed on getting to a legacy.
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Originally Posted by Gjn290
(Post 1657037)
Kimba, you're starting to sound like a broken record.
It's obvious you don't understand the importance of Turbine PIC, but without it you can't even apply to some of the legacy/major carriers. I would rather build 1000 TPIC at AMF, even if it's not as important as it used to be, then go log 121 jet SIC time. Contrary to your belief, it will put your résumé on top of those without it. At least at AMF you know you'll get to 1000 TPIC in a reasonable time verses a regional. Wouldn't you like to be able to check that box? |
Originally Posted by Gjn290
(Post 1657055)
You're right, people do have different goals. I myself don't have a huge interest in going 121. However, unless your goal is to be a regional lifer, having 1000 TPIC helps immensely in opening far more quality jobs in aviation.
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Originally Posted by Jetlife
(Post 1657056)
So you think that flying a Beech 99 (single pilot) from the left seat for a couple of years, is MORE relevant than flying a modern jet aircraft from the right seat, to a legacy? I would bet my certificate on the majors dropping the 1,000TPIC requirement before the average freight dawg is filling every new hire class at SWA. It doesn't even make common sense to sideline an FO who has thousands of hours flying a modern jet as an FO, to hire a King Air or similar PIC flying steam gauges, to be an FO... The 1,000TPIC is because they are snatching up regional/fractional/charter captains that have relevant experience and time. It isn't gonna be the freight guy that gets his hand raised anytime soon, not without other experience. The guy that spent a few years at at AMF, then to a regional is going to be a very desirable candidate.
Originally Posted by ClarenceOver
(Post 1657061)
My goal is to be a regional lifer....
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